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The Young Protectors: Engaging The Enemy Chapter Three—Page 42

607 Comments on The Young Protectors: Engaging The Enemy Chapter Three—Page 42

Oh, dear…

I’m currently at GaymerX2 in San Francisco for the weekend! I have a booth in the Expo Hall and it’s been awesome to get a chance to meet so many of you. I’d love to meet even more of you, though, there are still two more days of the Con, and it really is one of the most fun and warm conventions out there for queer-positive geeks like us—it’s like getting a big, cuddly hug from Captain Jack Harkness—you should totally come! 😀

We just marked our FIRST FULL-YEAR OF BONUS PAGE UPDATES on Wednesday and then just before I posted tonight, you yet again tipped over the donation bar below! That means that, thanks to your generous donations and in addition to our regular Saturday updates, there will also be bonus pages on Wednesday, July 16th (page 43!), Wednesday, July 23rd (page 45!), Wednesday, July 30th (page 47!), Wednesday, August 6th (page 49!), Wednesday, August 13th (page 51!), Wednesday, August 20th (page 53!), there will now be an additional bonus page (page 55!) on Wednesday, August, 27th! You ROCK!

Special thanks go out to long-time supporter Saxon B. (who makes their ninety-fifth [!!!] generous donation to The Young Protectors!) and a warm welcome and grateful bow go out to new supporter Kristin J. for their generous donations over the last few days!

Big hugs go out to long-time friends of The Young Protectors Robert B., and Pam W. for their super-generous $25 donations! And this makes Pam’s ninth and Robert’s seventy-fifth (!!) super-generous donations to this comic!

And finally, ZOMG!, super-warm and super-grateful hugs go out to long-time mega-friend, Christopher D. for their stunningly generous $100 donation, their eighty-fourth stunningly generous donation to this comic! You are SUPER-COOL, Christopher! Thank you so much!

Thank you all so much for your generous support!

So! It seems like when even the Spookster gets frowny, it’s time to intervene! Some strong words have just been said. And as that Spookster would be the first to point out, real trouble is just on the horizon. Will Commander be able to bring this rag-tag bunch back together again?

Tune in this Wednesday to find out! Hope to see you there! 😀

If you particularly enjoy any of these pages and use Facebook, please click the Like button on that page. It’s useful to know what’s working and it helps me get the word out!
  • davefragments

    oooh, the fight, the fight of words and distractions!

    • Congrats on the V, Dave!

      • davefragments

        Thanks. You have no idea how surprised I was when the page came up.

        • Me too. I just got home and pulled up the page before doing anything else and…there we were, all by ourselves for a couple of minutes.

          • *lol* Geting caught up in reading a long interesting scientific article is not good smack in the middle of ‘high camping’ xD
            And then the comments didn’t work for me until just now. Didn’t show the new ones until I refreshed.

          • davefragments

            disqus is acting up tonight

          • Yeah, I tried to access the page earlier on my phone but the comments wouldn’t load right or something.

          • I like that term ‘high camping,’ as in that time just before the page is going to update. ‘Low camping,’ one of the first few to arrive, maybe involves popping in and out until we reach ‘medial camping,’ where many camping are hanging out, discussing, writing short works of fiction in the comments, posting links, and sharing marshmallows.

          • Jen Roberts

            dammit now I want marshmallows…

  • Wow, full on fight!

  • Sapfo

    I join Alex:”Oh dear…”

  • And she stepped in..

    • Sapfo

      Hero Amanda, hero Amanda! Please let it be hero Amanda!

      • SofiaT

        Isn’t she always hero Amanda? 😀

        • Sapfo

          That she is ^_^

  • I also join Alex in: Oh dear….

  • SofiaT

    Finally!
    She speaks!

  • mogoskier

    Oh Gordon. You suck at defending yourself.

  • Toli Bera

    Sorry Team Dad. Mom’s had enough. 😛

    • A2MOM

      lol perfect 🙂

  • Damnit, Tsunami. This is why no one likes you. >_<

    His actions and words are screaming "I would rather throw Kyle out of the plane than be in the same room as him." Grr.

    • Jen Roberts

      I dunno. I get the feeling Gordon’s more of the “don’t ask, don’t tell”/”as long as they’re not ‘gay’ in public” types. I also think he’s using the team’s safety as a justification not to bring Kyle along, but I don’t know that he’d throw him off the plan. He wants Kyle safe…and possibly safely away from him (and from Mitch, which…what the hell, Gordo?)

      • TwilightDreamer

        I’m curious to see how he’ll react if he learns Mitch found what they were trying to hide from him on the computer…;P

        • Jen Roberts

          “Kyle didn’t do anything! I already exposed myself!”
          **GASP!**
          “…er…I mean… to the… I ALREADY KNEW ABOUT GAY GUYS! YEESH!”

          • TwilightDreamer

            rofl! XD

      • I would love to say that but knowing so many “don’t ask, don’t tell” people, their attitudes are just atrocious. They remind me of Tsunami quite a bit. Overly negative towards homosexuals, offended at the fact that they’re out and heaven forfend one of them be in their own group or family, because that means that they must now be treated differently. We may yet be surprised and see Tsunami turn around, apologize and become a redeemable character but I really…haven’t liked him from the beginning and my thoughts and opinions on him as a character have not changed as of yet.
        Perhaps the reason he is acting so negatively is because he is fighting possibly feelings of his own. Perhaps he is truly looking out for the others. However, I am not seeing this, I am merely seeing fear and a lack of understanding.

  • Okay, seriously guys, stop distracting the pilot!! I mean he is flying the plane, he could set it down right now if you guys don’t get yourselves under control. Besides, you don’t want Amanda to comeback there do you?

    Oops, too late.

    • TwilightDreamer

      Lol, seriously…I wouldn’t want to get on her bad side XD

  • Jen Roberts

    oh hell yeah, Commander’s putting a stop to this nonsense now

  • There really is a large stick residing in Tsunami’s rear. How is it a problem with Mitch knowing Kyle’s gay?

    • I’m wondering about that myself. How could it make any kind of difference?

    • Saxon_Brenton

      Well, remember Tsunami *did* try to protect Flyboy from the sight of the p0rn back in interlude 1. It looks bad for my ‘Tsunami isn’t really a homophobe’ theory, but it suggests that he’s still trying to protect Mitch from ‘unwholesome’ practicses.

      • I can understand a little bit of hiding the porn, although it’s foolish, considering that usually by the time boys are that age they have long ago found the porn.

        But this, yeah, this is ridiculous. And I agree.

    • Adam Black

      whos stick?

      • That’s not something I want to know.

        • Adam Black

          you cant unthink it, Lets try anyways ….
          Nope.. didnt work for me

          • I don’t know what you’re talking about. There is a wall between me and that stick.

    • HermeticallySealed

      The very idea that Gordon somehow thinks a 15 year old boy isn’t sexually aware makes me question his intelligence. My friends were talking about sexual things when we were 8 or 9, and that was before most people had cable. Hell, straight sex is pretty much shoved into every aspect of our lives; tv, music, movies, comics, books, advertising, magazines, etc.

      Mitch wasn’t even around for most of the discussion, so what all could he possibly have been “exposed” to that would be worse than anything he’d see anyway when dealing with straight sexuality? Gordon really seems to be subscribing to a severe double standard.

  • Saxon_Brenton

    They *almost* got to the name-calling
    Well, I’m glad Commander is stepping in. However, a thought occurs: Would Commander be stepping in to break up the fight if the fight wasn’t obviously distracting Flyboy and thereby putting all of them in danger?

    • Jen Roberts

      I think so. This is an issue that deals with team cohesion and morale; she’s not going to just let that slide. I think she was probably hoping they’d come to an understanding and settle down by now, but instead they’re escalating AND still distracting Flyboy, so now it’s time to shut it down.

      • Derkins

        I think that’s a fair assessment.

  • Adam Black

    no fair..
    i was telling @smsif:disqus my weird problems when this loaded.

    • Sapfo

      And I was Reading about it ;P

  • TwilightDreamer

    Oh thank goodness!! I was hoping Amanda would step in soon…this was really gonna get ugly…
    And hey! Leave Mitch out of this! What’s the big deal with him knowing about Kyle’s preference? Age has nothing with it. Poor Mitch must feel like he has no say in any of this…even at the points it DOES involve him…
    Seriously…want to hug Kyle again now…Like he didn’t feel bad enough already…

  • I really love this page. Their hotheaded emotions, body language, the colors of their uniforms but mostly I love that 5th panel. The angle, Spooky’s sideways warning glance at Mitch, Gordon and Paul angry in the background, and Mitch’s frustration.

    For just a moment I can see the man Mitch is going to grow into, a fleeting glimpse of what his face will look like in a couple of years.

    • purplefoxglove

      Went back to have another look at panel 5 – is it just me, or does it really look like Paul is tickling Tsunami’s belly? O.o

  • Mago de Won

    yes i think that is prejudice, ’cause it implies that being gay is a choice and that telling Mitch would be a bad influence. On the other hand i bet Gordon wouldn’t mind the guys talking about straight sex.
    His arguments about what is healthy content for Mitch to hear are hypocritical.

    • Jen Roberts

      The more I think about it, the more I think Gordon is overprotective. I think he *would* mind if they talked about straight sex around Mitch because of his age, but it’d be less “OH NO!” and more “Knock it off, you guys.”
      I think his thing with homosexuality is the preconception that it’s ALL ABOUT THE SEX 24/7 MAN. So basically, in his mind “Kyle’s gay” = “Gay porn on internet”. He’s wrong, of course; so very, very wrong. But he’s being massively overprotective over the youngest member of the group. So it comes from the right place, maybe? But it’s still wrong. See also: paving stones on the road to Hell (*cough*).

      • Mago de Won

        Thanks for your response!
        I don’t know….
        I believe his argument is more about homosexuality being a bad influence for a younger person, which is a big falsehood. That is the impression it struck me.

        But don’t worry, in every story there are unpleasant characters and that doesn’t change the fact that i love this comic.
        Too I am still considering the possibility that Gordon is also gay but since que hasn’t accepted himself yet he is directing his anger and frustration towards Kyle.

        • Jen Roberts

          Yeah, either way he’s trying to protect Mitch from something Mitch really doesn’t need protection *from* (and it’s too late anyway, but he doesn’t know that part).
          It’ll be interesting when they land and Mitch can speak up for himself without fear of them all crashing. ^_^

          • Mago de Won

            Agreed. I am waiting for Mitch response too. It will be something to hear….read.

  • Adam Black

    I like the sky / sky blue framing

    i dont remember this before, but its a nice technique

  • Oh hey, she’s gonna do her job.

    • Jen Roberts

      You bet she is.

  • stickfigurefairytales

    I mean, thirty percent demon would be fine, but half?!

    • I know, OMG, that extra 20% just tips the scale doesn’t it.

      • stickfigurefairytales

        Even 46% could be acceptable, but 50?!

        • I think though 47% is tops. Can’t go above 47%.

    • Saxon_Brenton

      A lot of the characters keep using the same phrase ‘at least half demon’. I swear, if I didn’t know Alex was capable of more subtly I’d think it was foreshadowing for the revelation that Red Hot’s mom was a demon too. (Although I would be immensely amused if it turned out that Laampros was Red’s only parent, and simply budded Red off like Zeus putting forth Athena from his forehead…)

      • Adam Black

        I think I would enjoy watching the budding process —- maybe

      • stickfigurefairytales

        That would be a very intriguing origin, although on a mythological note I should point out that Zeus didn’t create Athena alone. She was his daughter with his first wife, Metis, who he swallowed after tricking her into shapeshifting into a fly (because she was pregnant and if she’d had a son, that son would have overthrown Zeus like he’d overthrown Cronus and Cronus had overthrown his dad). Metis gave birth to Athena inside Zeus’s head (she also hammered her out some armor, which gave Zeus massive headaches), and Zeus was in so much pain that he had Hephaestus split open his skull with a chisel, at which point Athena sprang out, fully grown.

        (I love Athena.)

        • Derkins

          I love mythology ^_^

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Me too! 😀

  • karmakat

    okay i like tsunami’s body but his mind is GETTING ON MY NERVES i swear…

  • Donald Burch

    I need more time to process this scene but I can say now: 1. Gorgeous page, Alex, Adam, and Veronica! The composition of images flows smoothly with the dialog. Too, nice use of negative space to “frame” the glider on row two. I like how the wing tip crosses into the frame next to it for the illusion of depth. Coloring struck me as beautiful and consistent. It is my experience that colors reflect the action in the panel so “typically” the intense nature of the argument might call for reds and yellows. You didn’t go that route here and the effect is impressive. I note for future reference in my work.

    2. Gordon’s argument, where to begin. My knee-jerk reaction is to glare at the big lunk for that crap he just spewed about Kyle. The jury is out as to Gordon’s motives but the fact of the matter remains that he does not trust Kyle after his team leader and Spooky cleared him for the mission. That strikes me as his allowing emotion to overwhelm reason. If that is so then what emotion is he feeling that is so strong as to overwhelm his reasoning? It seems tied to Mitch’s learning about Kyle’s orientation but not specifically to his orientation. Might Tsunami have a cultural bias that anything sexual must be private and kept from the kids?

    3. Regardless of motive and intent Gordon is expressing his opinions very poorly. His conduct is affecting team morale and cohesion going into an extremely hazardous situation. If he was really so concerned about their safety he might have kept his trap shut and expressed his misgivings to Commander in private.

    To close, Alex weaves a magnificent yarn yet again. I cannot wait for Wednesday! Thanks again to all of the creative gurus behind TYP. You’ve made my weekend.

    • Thank you very much for the kind words, Donald. I’m glad you liked the update. 🙂

    • Archidel

      Point 2 may well be the case. Most people here seem more than happy to think that Tsunami has a problem with homosexuality specifically, where, in fact, he has only ever been talking about sexuality, period. Some people just aren’t comfortable with the topic of sex or sexuality around kids, in the pretty broad definition of the word “kids”. That isn’t exclusive to close-minded fundamentalists either.

      I am an unabashedly gay man myself who is well aware that kids as young as 12 often do already start to think and have feelings about such things and who believes that it is probably wisest to make sure they are informed about all that entails. The best decision, after all, is always the informed decision. I do know several other happily out and open homosexual men and women however, who are not at all comfortable talking about sex or sexuality around 14-15-16 year olds.

      So, is there some homophobic sentiment in Tsunami’s attitude towards Kyle. Quite possibly, but until we actually see that confirmed I will withhold judgment. Benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty and that whole shtick.

      • Derkins

        Withholding judgement is always a good idea. I do believe, though, that without picking at the ambiguous details, we can still look at a couple of different factors and draw a conclusion that would otherwise leave us in danger of being a tad naive. I try not to judge, but I also try to be aware of what’s going on around me, and in society.

        For those playing devil’s advocate, or just saying “we can’t know,” I’d like to offer this, from workingitout.org.au, which explains what homophobia is in all it’s different facets and manifestations. I wrote a post about it myself further down, but references are better than regurgitation. This first part I find especially relevant to Tsunami:

        “All of us – gay and heterosexual – are socialized into a society in which the idea that homosexuality is inferior to heterosexuality is common. Regardless of how we identify sexually, most of us grow up thinking in ways that are prejudiced and homophobic. If people are never challenged it is easy for them to assume heterosexuality is the only ‘natural’ or ‘normal’ sexuality.”

        It is clear by Tsunami’s lack of sensitivity about Kyle coming-out (feeling offended that Kyle said nothing and attributing it as untrustworthiness) that he has never challenged some of his own innate and subconscious attitudes.

        This is all completely beside his reaction to Fluke’s accusation that he is homophobic, and beside his reaction to the gay porn earlier in the story. This one unambiguous factor, his reaction to Kyle’s coming out, tells us that he does harbor, granted on a level that is addressable, hangups that “need to be challenged.”

        Workingitout ends it’s paragraph with this hopeful blurb, “The good news is that prejudice is learnt and can be easily unlearnt.” — Which follows well considering a number of us have expressed the hope Tsunami can learn more toleance and sensitivity toward this subject.

        Finally, on the web page, the Org. follows up their explanation with a bullet list of indicators that someone is homophobic. Here are the couple that are relevant:

        – not being supportive of a same-sex attracted friend when they break up with their partner
        (Tsunami is in fact victim-blaming Kyle, making him feel worse. Instead of saying Kyle is a liability because he’s an emotional train wreck, he’s calling him a liability for his lineage, and for not coming out — after all, he couldn’t have so much as told them about his first encounter with Anni without coming out, which was part of the manipulation I’m sure– at a time that would’ve been convenient for everyone else.)

        -making unnecessary or rude comments about, or feeling repulsed by public displays of affection between same-sex partners
        (Given, porn goes beyond PDA’s, but remember that Gordon had been interested in the porn they found until he discovered it was gay porn, at which point he exclaimed that it was disgusting. A hetero man may not want to look at it, but someone who is not homophobic at all would not view same sex love-making as anything other than normal. Certainly not disgusting. Just not a turn-on. And naughty fan-fic is generally going to be a lot tamer than actual hardcore porn.)

        Of course, Gordon’s behavior in association with both of these bullet points is in enough of a gray area that he doesn’t even realize he’s doing it, and enough that we can all debate about it. But the evidence, and cultural precedent, *is* there.

        What I can say in defense of Gordon is that even Fluke had some “what were you thinking?!” comments and questions for Kyle when they initially rescued him. The rest of the team wasn’t there to see how filled with shame and regret Kyle was, and that even he had questions about his own morality. It’s quite realistic that at least one member of the team, who didn’t get to be there, would react like this. Though I won’t for a second condone it, especially given the time/place, and Gordon’s guardian role, never-mind the misguided morality of it.

  • Adam Black

    In Gordons defense,
    Kyle is not just gay. He’s a gay-demon from Hell.
    From my dating experience that is the worst kind of gay.

    For all Gordon knows, Kyles gayness-from-hell really is infectious.
    If that happens, he’ll have to change his name from ‘Tsunamai’ to ‘Steam-Boy’.

    • Saxon_Brenton

      [goes back to comments on page 41 and re-checks Adam’s weird situation description there. sees nothing relevant and returns]

      Is there something you want to tell us about some of your past dates?

      • Adam Black

        I dont think that will help Tsunami

      • Martel733

        Its the preachers sons you have to watch out for.

    • Twirls

      “Kyle is not just gay. He’s a gay-demon from Hell.”
      I feel like we need a t-shirt with this on it.

    • Maus Merryjest

      So instead of Fire and Brimstone it shall be Flare and Sparkle?

      I… could be on board with that.

  • Sapfo

    AAV agerat new page. Makes me think. But for some reason my boss dont think commenting is “real work” so I be back later…. Just have to gather my thoughts

    • Adam Black

      she has obviously hasn’t heard of “the talking cure”

  • Cydney Sabin

    Yeah. He’s half-demon. And he doesn’t even get a demon-tail or those cute little horns. Total ripoff.

    • Maus Merryjest

      Kyle would sort of look adorable with little horns, wouldn’t he? 🙂

      • Cydney Sabin

        If I could draw, I’d be drawing that right now!

  • Kiri

    I think the important thing here – is that Tsunami says ‘He’s being hanging out with the guy who’s responsible for all this’.

    The problem is not – is he gay? the problem is ‘he’s been sleeping with the enemy’ and not telling them that he is. And yeah, I agree that his problem is sex in front of Flyboy – gay or straight. He is also offended to be called a homophobe, so you got to hope he doesn’t read the comments here! (snicker)

    Kyle’s loyalties are compromised, in Tsunami’s eyes. And now that it is out – Commander intervenes. She more than anyone knows whether Kyle is harbouring any residual feelings towards the silver fox, and whether he would be able to coerce/manipulate him again.

    Right now, Kyle is deeply wounded – but that doesn’t mean he hates whats-his-name – there are plenty of cases of people going back to the ones who abuse them. Would Kyle tell them? Can Tsunami trust him to tell them?

    Nothing that Kyle says will satisfy Tsunami. Only Commander who knows the minds and hearts of her team will be able to do that.

    • Mago de Won

      Sorry, I don’t mean any harm, but I don´t think we as followers have to justify every bad action of the “good” characters of the story to show that we love the comic and its argument as if in fear of angering the author. I believe authors too have characters in their stories which they don’t like a lot and whose behaviour they find unpleasant, but consider them necesary for the plot to move forward and be substancial. following this train of thought I dont believe we have to find a good side of every character to show the authors we love their work.
      I got the impression Gordon clearly implied that Kyle’s homosexuality is something that Mitch shouldn’t know of, as if it were something unwholesome that could be spread and others shouldn’t be influenced by it, and I don’t believe that came from the right place.
      In the end i think Kyle has a more noble and hero like heart than Gordon, but I see that many of the followers criticize him for having a crush on a guy who we are not sure what will do in the end.

      • kamishiro

        For me the impression was that any kind os sexual conversation is off limits, not just homosexual ones. Tsunami looks like the uptight kinda guy.
        For me Fluke was really provoking when he put Kyle’s sexuality into the conversation. I still don’t think he is really a homophobe. All his arguments until now was about the safety of the world and the team. Tsunami doesn’t trust Kyle 100% not because he is gay, but because he got involved with the enemy. Fluke was the one who took it personally and insinuated Tsunami was a homophobe.

        • Mago de Won

          Gordon said: “I might not be thrilled he decided to share his sex life with the youngest member of our team, who is barely fifteen”.
          He specifically referred to Kyle’s sexual life. He didn’t say he was against sex talks involving a teenager.
          That speaks for itself. Not everything has to be explicit to be implied.

          • Kiri

            If I was winston churchill, and my sister slept with adolph hitler – I wouldn’t trust her on a mission to deal with him. At this point in time Duncan is worse than Adolph Hitler – he’s sold the world to Laampros. For Tsunami NOT to have concerns about him sleeping with Duncan and not telling them – is going way past the line in a trust issue.

            It’s easy to concentrate on the whole sex thing – but seriously? That’s small beans.

          • Mago de Won

            If your are kind to me and read again you will see I never said anything about evil people. I clearly said: “bad action” which is pretty different. But I guess you are very sensitive about someone disagreeing with you.
            In fact Gordon’s actions, although subtly, enter the realm of homophoby which means he harms others with his attitude. That doesn’t make him evil, I agree with you on that and I never said anything even remotely close.
            But leaving evil aside, don’t forget that a bad action is not only the one with bad intentions but also those that harm others.
            On the other post you left, if you felt attacked when I talked about defending a character, I apologize, I am sorry, but if you read carefully you will see I never said those were your intentions, I clearly stated that was my opinion over the fact that many followers defend characters which I don’t find a crime but I also find it unnecessary. And since Gordon’s actions are pushing Kyle aside and making him feel victim-guilty, I saw the perfect opportunity to comment about this when you were finding justifications for Gordon’s bad actions.
            See? I never talked about evil or bad people, just about behaviour mistakes and insensitive attitudes.

          • SofiaT

            Hi Mago,

            As I said earlier, we’re really happy to have you join the community! And I’m also certain that you don’t mean anything bad by it, but again, some “you” statements here.

            I’ll give you an example of what a “you” statement is, and why it’s dangerous to use: “I guess you are very sensitive about someone disagreeing with you”.

            Anything that makes assumptions on what other people think or feel is dangerous ground; nobody likes to be judged and judging someone over a written comment on the internet is pretty shaky; we don’t really know each other, we also can’t hear the tone of speech of a post to know for sure if the other person is joking or serious, we don’t have the advantage of reading body language, as in real life.

            So it’s our policy here to always think the best of the intentions of our fellow commentators, rather than assuming something, as that can lead to misunderstandings. We are allowed to question and challenge -respectfully- people’s theories and ideas, but not the person. Also, if at any point someone is starting to feel uncomfortable in a discussion, is free to bow out of it; responding to a post is not an obligation. Respecting the poster, if we do decide to respond though, is.
            This makes certain that our community remains a pleasant place for everyone! 🙂

            Please don’t be disheartened from commenting again. This isn’t me slapping your wrist, this is an introduction to the fandom’s rules of etiquette, and and explanation of why the people here are so nice, as you said yesterday.

            I’m sure you’ll make a fine addition to the fandom and you seem to have many things and ideas to contribute, so I”m looking forward to seeing you share them with us, always with a tone of respect towards the other readers. Here’s a link to the Comments Policy again, for your convenience: http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/comment-policy/

            Please read it, and if you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask one of the moderators (Alex, Admiral Jane or myself) for clarification 🙂

            Hasta luego!

          • Kiri

            Thankyou Sofia – I was offended both by the first time he did this, and by the second. I have no problems with him disagreeing, but I have many problems with people attributing feelings and intentions to me, when they don’t know me (and even when they do).

          • SofiaT

            Thanks Kiri, just doing my job. 🙂

          • Martel733

            There is no workplace in the world other than bars & sex industry that talking about your sex life is appropriate. In real life you could get in trouble at work for saying “did you see drunk Dona Topper grinding with that black janitor at the company x-mass party”

          • Phyre Storm

            Are you saying Kyle shouldn’t have told Mitch he had sex with Duncan? What was he supposed to say when Mitch wanted to know why he needed rescuing from the warehouse?

          • HermeticallySealed

            Which would only be relevant in this situation if what happened with Duncan wasn’t directly related to the emergency at hand. This wasn’t Kyle bragging about banging the supervillain. Context and comparable examples do actually matter.

          • kamishiro

            You interpreted that way and i interpreted as any kinda of sexual topic was off limit. Let’s just wrap this up.

      • Kiri

        Also I would appreciate it if you do not try and interpret my intentions and feelings. You do not know me or my life experience and as a consequence you have no idea of what my intentions and feelings are. Feel free to disagree with me, and feel free to interpret the intentions and feelings of the story. But please don’t tell me what I think and feel – I don’t like it.
        (And yeah, this is a red flag to a bull for me).

  • “Call me a-” what, Tsunami? Call me a WHAT? Go on, say it!

    Say it, you prejudiced mojo-talking bastard.

    • AseretZone

      He’s not prejudiced, Star. He’s worried for his team. And his issue is not the “gay” part. He said “sharing his sex life with a fifteen year old”. I’m sure that if it was the PP, he’d be saying the exact same thing.
      And you’re not helping the tension in the air. The Commander cut him off for good reason, because it’s just getting out-of-hand. You already know what fluke is claiming, so don’t be over-dramatic. We get enough of that from Fluke and it’s not cute.

      • LOL Fine but really, what was Tsunami going to end his sentence with? And what’s wrong with sharing info about sexwith a fifteen-year-old? Flyboy’s not exactly a baby. He knows about the birds and the bees.

        It really shouldn’t be as big a deal as Tsunami’s making it into. If anything, he should be freaking out about the half-demon part, and that’s IT.

  • Aza

    seriously, it IS a sign of a homophobe to think that it’s a problem to talk about homosexuality with a teenager. seriously, not too few feurteen-year-olds know they’re gay – or at least suspect it and have lots of trouble with the thought just because some idiots think they’re ‘too young’ to know about homosexuality. Stuff like what Tsunami’s saying is really a whole lot of the problem. So yes, we CAN call him a homophobe.

    As for “sleeping with the enemy” – ohmy. I can get being suspicious of people who betray for money or gains and then say they have seen ‘the error of their ways’ – but a teenager being seduced by a much older person? That’s just another way of victim blaming. and as long as he has friends (or family) that will still keep him in and accept him, I don’t think he’s in any danger of ever going back.

    • Mago de Won

      I completely agree with you.

      • Adam Black

        As a native speaker, your English looks fine.

        • Mago de Won

          Sorry, I don’t mean to sound rude, I know your gesture has a good intention, but english is your native language. For me is a foreing language.

          • SofiaT

            This is a popular comic, with fans around the globe.
            Many, probably most, of the readers and commentators here speak English only as a second language, myself included, so don’t worry too much about it.

          • Mago de Won

            ¡Thank you very much!

          • SofiaT

            De nada 😉

    • Jen Roberts

      Absolutely Gordon has some homophobic issues, and I’m not saying the name doesn’t apply. He’s just a more subtle type of homophobe, and probably doesn’t think of himself that way. He’s not the stomping-around-talkin’-’bout-how-god-hates-fags sort of homophobe. He believes (I think) that he’s coming from a good place, from what’s right, and that he’s acting in Mitch’s best interests.
      The problems are, of course, that (1) he may have good intentions, but he’s just completely wrong, and (2) Mitch is 15 years old and can stand up for his own interests. This isn’t something like signing a contract or even consenting to sex where age is an issue; this is exactly the age when he needs to start speaking up for himself (and I get the feeling he’ll do exactly that in upcoming pages).

      As far as the “victim blaming” – yes, he’s doing that, too, and again, he’s doing it from an overabundance of protectiveness of the team. Yes, he’s still wrong to do so, absolutely, and there’s probably no small amount of his subconscious homophobia creeping in, but he’s using the justification that if Kyle can be seduced by a supervillain – and one calling himself The Annihilator, no less – he might be a weak link in the team’s chain.

      I’m not trying to be a Gordon-apologist. I just think it’s good to see a more subtle type of homophobia presented, one that is less “It’s an evil wicked sin against Nature and God!” and more …insidious than that. I also enjoy characters who do bad things when trying to do good things, because it seems very realistic to me. Gordon’s wrong here, and I’ve no doubt the entire team’s about to call him out on it (maybe not Kyle, ’cause guilt guilt guilt). And he deserves to be called out. I am hopeful that, over the course of the story, Gordon’ll realize how wrong he’s been in his thinking, confront that and work to change it. It’s a difficult process for anyone to do, but he’s tough; he can do it if he tries (and once he realizes what he’s *really* saying here).

      • Derkins

        I agree with every word you said. Well put!

    • To give Gordy the slightest benefit of the doubt, but he could just be really weird about sex in all its forms–the whole must protect the children from learning anything at all about sex because then they might want to have it camp. We don’t know, it’s possible he would have reacted similarly had they found m/f porn of them all. Granted, I doubt it very much, but there is that teeny tiny tiny tiny teeny possibility.

    • zunden

      Can I just add that most non-straight guys have at least a guess that they’re not straight by about 12, and most non-straight girls are in that position by 15? So, uh… Mitch being 15, there’s really no way to justify him as “too young” to know that homosexuality exists. He’s either already thought about it, or he probably never will. Then again, homophobia generally isn’t based on research and scientific evidence, so… yeah.

      Also, I hadn’t thought about it as victim blaming, but I think you’re right… The differences in both age and experience could get this classified as a statutory rape case if the actual sex hadn’t occurred, you know, on the day Kyle became legal. The fact that it isn’t is one of those nominal, line-in-the-sand issues (and potentially an “all sex is a good thing as long as you have a penis” issue, but that’s another topic). Honestly, that issue (the disparity of age/experience) has been bugging me more than the hero/villain problem for the entire length of the comic so far. I’ve been pretending that Duncan is a lot younger than he is and that Kyle is a bit older (maybe 30-35 and 21?) just to get my head to stop giving me creeper alerts.

      Similarly, being someone who has had to come out—you come out to the people who are most accepting first, and you feel a certain willingness/desire to trust people who demonstrate that they accept (or even celebrate) you exactly as you are. If that happens to be a supervillain who stumbled upon evidence of your orientation and then instantly accepted you, understood your situation, encouraged you to feel okay about it, made you feel sexy and confident, and swore over and over that he was really, truly, honestly reformed and no longer a villain…. Yeah, you’ll believe him because your emotional need for everything else he provides (safety, security, open companionship, confidence, etc.) outweighs your sense of logic. If you want to be sure you can trust Kyle, Gordy, just trust him. If you treat him like he really, truly belongs in your group–even if he’s gay and you’re not–he’ll be loyal and you’ll keep him. Treat him like he’s suddenly a villain or alienate him just because he likes guys, and well… no promises. We’re all human, so our loyalties can be very heavily influenced by who makes us feel the most accepted, integral, and safe.

      • Aza

        I had a friend in Highschool (eg german equivalent to it^^) who was going out with a guy who was 30 when she was 17. I always was asking myself what he actually got out of it… because seriously, what, besides a tremendous amount of power you gain over a so much younger person, do you get out of it? Certainly not a serious partnership on equal ground. (I can totally NOT imagine dating a teenager now. nope. no way in hell.)

        Even now that I’m nearly 25 I’m still creeped whenever Guys in their mid-30ties show interest in me. And I’ve been out of school for 6 Years, am nearly finished with university etc. – The difference in life experience isn’t even as staggering now.

        I can totally get why Kyle fell for the nice façade. It’s so very flattering when someone with so much more experience tells you that you’re special and treats you as an equal, or at least someone equal enough to commit to a partnership. That there might be other, much less savory reasons, doesn’t immediately spring to mind, because, what would they actually gain from you? Kyle didn’t tell the Annihilator anything he didn’t already know. He didn’t imagine he could have anything the Annihilator would want. So there was no reason to suspect anything but honesty.

        Only with time and experience do we realize what a variety of things can be gained from each and every one of us. And still, neary all of us would fall prey to a skilled enough seducer. This is why I totally do not blame Kyle: I know exactly how easy it is to manipulate people, if you know where to start. And the Annihilator played his game masterly.

        And yes, the age gap has my “creep!”-alarm ringing constantly. So feel ya there!

        • Martel733

          If you want to get married and have kids with a str8 guy you have to do it before your fertility drops like a rock at 35. I have str8 friends and the time you could get an equal age str8 man to marry ended in college. That women only have a 5% chance to get preg naturally at 40 is the thing old haggard lesbians don’t want women to know.
          The reason Jezebel hired an unknown ,little merit, 23yo white girl to be CEO, instead of the 2nd in command is they didn’t want the face of feminism to conform to the stereotype of an old, overweight, never married, no kids, frumpy, cat lady.

    • Martel733

      My sister got upset when I told her kids the truth about why I was not married. I told them the best candidate for me to marry was killed by an illegal alien drunk driver, and had to explain what illegal aliens where because they hear “undocumented” at home.

      • Phyre Storm

        Right, because the person’s immigration status was SO relevant. ~_~

        • Martel733

          Actually it is, not only would they not be here if they where not violating the law, but if the border was secure Paul would be alive. Drinking and driving is OK in Mexico, at most you pay a fine to a cop and drive off. Its part of the culture just like Mexico’s age of consent being 12 has to do with the stereotype of the Mexican child sex offender. You remember how str8 congressman Menendez deflected his having sex with 14yo girls while on vacation by pointing out it was not illegal where he was.

          • Phyre Storm

            I’m very sorry for your loss, which I should have said in my first reply. It seems your information about drunk driving laws in Mexico is outdated, though: http://www.ehow.com/list_6799413_drunk-driving-laws-mexico.html

          • Martel733

            Seems your knowledge of corruption in Mexico is rainbows & unicorns. Congressman Bob Menendez could rape a couple of 14yo girls down there and just pay a cop that saw him a bribe.

          • Martel733

            It turns that buying children for sex trafficking in Mexico is only a few times the bribe paid to avoid getting arrested for drunk driving. Congressman Menendez approves.

            http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/07/01/official-believes-illegals-renting-kids-to-cross-border/

          • Martel, I’m going to ask you one last time to cease with such discourse. It has no place here. If you wish to continue to contribute, please read the Comment Policy for directions on how to contribute meaningfully.

            If you continue posting along this vein, you will be asked to leave.

            Thank you

          • Phyre Storm

            There’s nothing in that article about sex trafficking or bribery. Did you perhaps mean to post a different link?

      • HermeticallySealed

        Because legal residents never get drunk and/or kill people. . . .

        • Martel733

          Look at the TX 10 most wanted page and see the face of “white as George Zimmerman” crime. The majority of the 10 most wanted felons and the sex crimes list in TX are people that are illegal aliens.

          • HermeticallySealed

            Which still refutes nothing that I stated.

          • Martel733

            Ok I understand that an illegal alien being deported means they can’t rape 12yos and kill people in the US is an abstract concept. Lets try simple math on the TX ten most wanted list 6 of the 10 Latinos on the list belong to gangs of illegal aliens. (hold up 10 out of 10 on the most wanted list being Latinos, when Paul and I lived in TX there was more whites than Latinos, & some whatever you want to call blacks also, must be wracist cops) The 10 most wanted are the worst of the worst criminals. Illegal aliens take up 25% of federal prison cells, and these are ones that committed additional crimes.
            Lets say I waved a majik wand and the border was sealed and all the illegals got deported to see crime go down 25-60% in areas with diversity. That means in the diversity areas that we like to live, less gays become victims of crime. You do know its not str8 white churchgoing guys that commit the most crimes against gays right?

        • Martel733

          I am guessing you are one of those that said it doesn’t matter that it was a muslim immigrant that firebombed a packed Seattle gay bar last new years eve. Oh wait I had to hear about it from the conservative at work, because the “gay” media didn’t report it since it wasn’t a str8, white, Christian man.

          http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/seattle-muslim-arrested-for-arson-attack-on-gay-nightclub

          I especially didn’t like having to find out from the conservative at work about the meningitis outbreak among gays in NYC post Sandy and how it was connected to one gym/bathhouse. You would think the gay media would have warned people or at least mentioned it.”Are you talking to your “friends” about the symptoms of meningitis? No why?” Where Bloomberg was partially responsible for the outbreak by turning away the national guard and his crony locked up 100 ambulances and 200 healthcare workers for 5 days doing nothing, with a no bid contract that paid the same as if they where working 16hr shifts and using up equipment..

  • Sharon Kerr-Bullian

    At this point, I don’t particularly care what Tsunami’s motive is, if he’s meant to be the XO, he’s screwing up big time. He may be trying to ‘fix things’, but it’s heavy-handed, at the wrong time, and not the right way. He’s letting personal feelings override confirmed fact. Amanda, as the CO, not as a friend, needs to give him a huge dressing down when they’ve had some time to rest after the mission (not immediately after, they need some cool down time so that people are less likely to say something they’ll regret). I don’t think they should be getting into that right now, since the mission’s about to get hot, and they need to be focused on that, not on the questionable decisions of both Kyle and Gordon.

    I think they’ll also need to, as a team, address the keeping of secrets from other members of the team. They’ve all been doing it, it would seem, and it’s clearly not working out for the team – hiding things from each other has clearly been destructive on an individual and team level – all those secrets are breeding resentment and insecurity. They also need to get together and come clean about their feelings – there’s a lot of interpersonal dynamics that need going over with a fine tooth comb so everyone can either function together, or split from the team and perhaps join another team (if there is one).

    • Mago de Won

      I agree with most of the things you wrote.
      But this goes for all the followers of the comic. I don’t understand which are supposed to be Kyle’s questionable decisions: having a crush? having a demon father? or having fear of coming out on the first time he is exploring his sexuality, which was implied on telling the others about Duncan?
      I don´t see how the first two have anything of decisions and the third one is pretty understandable. the first time you are gonna tell a friend you are gay most guys are terrified, feeling alone and scared that something you are could be the reason others reject and hate you.

      • SKB

        In my opinion, Kyle’s questionable decision was dating a known supervillain – having a crush on the enemy is fine, actually dating… so many ways that’s going to end terribly. Yes, I’m actually judging a decision, not something that isn’t a decision.

        I would never judge someone for not coming out. Being gay and transgendered, that’d be nothing but hypocritical from me.

        • Mago de Won

          I don’t know….
          I think the whole “date the supervillain” argument is a bit tricky.
          Duncan could turn out to be a redeemed villain in the end and not giving him an oportunity would be judgemental.
          And having a crush on a guy and then not dating him because he is a villain sounds easy, but is a rationalized decision you say you would take while you are outside of the situation, which I think would not be as easy to take with emotions involved.

          • SKB

            This is where I might be having trouble understanding your point of view – I score very highly on IQ tests, which test your ability to recognize patterns.

            I’ve also always had a difficult time connecting emotionally with people. I connect with animals much more easily. I’m not diagnosed with autism, but it wouldn’t surprise me if a psychiatrist did diagnose me as autistic.

            As a result, a lot of my decisions on people are strongly based on recognition of behavior pattern.

            My emotions are simply less important in making those decisions than perhaps they should be. Unfortunately, this also means I don’t give people a fair chance when perhaps I should, and that is something I often regret after the fact.

            I have been accused of having the emotional depth of a teaspoon by those who don’t know me very well.

          • Mago de Won

            Don’t worry, I don’t think you are insensitive at all, I just think is a common human mistake to believe reasons and emotions are not intertwined, so many of us tend to judge other people´s decisions from the outside, that’s all.
            And by the way, I score very highly too on IQ tests: over 160 on Wechsler tests, but that doesn’t make my emotional intelligence any smaller.
            So please don’t understimate yourself and tell that you have asperger autism when maybe you are just a little strict when it comes to judging decisions, I don’t think that kind of self feedback is useful for you. In fact the greatest weakness of people with asperger is their poor dicision making abilities, and I bet your ability to take very good rational decisions is a proof of how intelligent and sensitive you are.
            Sorry if I was rude in my previous comment or in this one, it was not really my intention.

          • Phyre Storm

            I have Asperger’s and my decision-making abilities are just fine, thankyouverymuch.

          • Maus Merryjest

            The questionable decision is a big one: Deciding to fraternize with an enemy.

            As far as superheroes go, that’s a big no-no, especially if you are a member of a team that could be jeopardized if the enemy decides to use you to get at them.

            Fortunately for the team, that didn’t happen.

            Unfortunately for the team, what DID happen was that the villain decided to use HIM in order to strike a deal to unleash Hell On Earth in a very literal way.

            Unless there has been a redefinition of ‘redeemed’, I’d say that the outcome shows Duncan was never in that camp.

            And, hey, considering what Kyle does for a living and what Duncan does for a living, it behooved Kyle to at least alert SOMEONE in his team who could provide him with a means to find out the man’s true intentions. Maybe he couldn’t come out to any of his male team-mates, but Commander would have been a perfect counselor and confidant.

            So the first questionable choice was going for Duncan. The second questionable choice was keeping the team totally in the dark without setting up a fail safe in case Duncan turned out to be a buff wolf in sheep’s clothing- as he did.

            If he had date anyone else, a civilian, none of it would have been his team’s business. But being a supervillain, it definitely makes it top priority knowledge for the team’s interest and self-preservation.

            And let’s be honest here: if the whole argument is that emotions get in the way—- well, if Kyle is the kind of person whose emotions blind to that level, doesn’t Tsunami have a good reason in thinking he might not be the best fit for the job? We are talking about superheroes- people upon whose judgment the lives of others depend.

            On those and those alone I think Tsunami is right. The half-demon bit? Eh, if Spooky says there’s no danger, I trust the guy who knows his demonology.

          • Mago de Won

            wow, please don´t cast stones at me.
            I don’t know….. your conclusions are a bit radical.
            fraternizing with the enemy sounds a bit agressive and judgemental, almost as if Kyle decided that intentionally which I believe is false. On the other hand Duncan intentions behind the whole dilemma are not yet known nor is his stand in the story rigidly stablished. The story is barely unfolding and the outcome is yet to be seen, and Duncan’s intentions would be stablished if his thoughts had been shown directly, but as far as the story goes we have only seen the outer appearance of his actions.
            And by the way, judging other people’s decisions with written dissertations that stablish final truths is rationalized and pretty comfortable but also descontextualized and unrealistic, because in real life when you take decisions you don’t have that much posting space or thinking time thus the possibility of making human mistakes is much closer. That is the reason why humans still depend on emotions when it comes to their decision making brain systems; emotions help take fast decisions in circumstances in which reflective thinking would be inefficient. That doesn’t mean that emotional choices nor rational ones are always accurate; it is thoroughly known in psychology that both choice means can lead us to big mistakes. but it is also known that there isn’t pure reasoning neither pure emotion in human’s thought processes.
            If you believe I am wrong, why don’t you give it a look to the more profound psychological definition of the concept “emotions”, unless your emotions are clouding your judgement and you are not willing to see it for yourself.

          • Maus Merryjest

            Common sense often sounds radical nowadays.

            In all honesty the term ‘fraternizing with the enemy’ is extremely mild when we’re referring to someone who not just became friendly with their enemy but allowed themselves to be open and vulnerable on an emotional level with them, and allowed for the possibility of the enemy harming others.

            This is hand-waving and excusing. The argument that someone is helpless in the face of their emotions and can’t control himself is patently ridiculous.

            Emotions are not tools of cognition, they are tools of reaction, they do not tell you anything about the world, only what your pre-supposed ideas about the world are, and they can be dead wrong (such as a person trying to deny their sexuality because it ‘feels’ wrong). If someone is at a constant odd with their emotions, it looks like they need to introspect and fix the mess that is their unexamined life, because they’re obviously not the ones driving the bus.

            A rule of thumb: If you can’t come to a decision, and you are feeling a conflict between your emotions and your brain, go with your brain.

            In this case, THINKING about a situation would have avoided a great deal of sorrow. If there is no time to think, err on the side of common sense: Don’t date a fricking villain!

            Ultimately, it matters little to the world whether or not one is incapable of controlling his emotions- what it matters is that an alleged inability to do so has perched the entire world at the brink of hell. If the person in question is someone who is out there fighting and wielding powers that can affect thousands of people, they need to get their act together or find something else to do.

            I also find this amount of excuse-building simply astonishing. Annie’s motives are not clear? The bargain was very clear: He used a teenager’s lust to open a portal to hell, summon Satan and strike a deal with him while throwing all of humanity under a bus.

            If the argument is that Anni is going to try to outsmart Laampros– yeah, good luck with that. He may be a good manipulator, he certainly manipulated a poor, inexperienced young man. He may be good enough to manipulate seasoned adults, too…

            But a malignant entity who has several millennia on him and whose kind often gets titles such as Prince Of Lies and The Deceiver? *Definitely* good luck with that, Annie. Here’s the issue with even considering this as a potential course of action for Annie:

            Even if deceit is his intent, there is the *very high* possibility that the deception will fail (prince of lies, etc), which means instant and complete obliteration for the human race, or eternal slavery.

            The fact that Duncan even considered that that was an acceptable possibility makes him a moral monster beyond redemption- all for the sake of his vanity.

            Kyle, in the end, was an innocent whose bad choice was exploited. As a hero, he needs to learn (very quickly) that emotions and hormones are no substitutes for clear thinking, especially when you have the lives of others in your hand. When you make a habit of forcing yourself to think clearly and stay level-headed, you’d be surprised how quickly and clearly you can think in an emergency.

            Duncan, on the other hand, is past redemption. There is nothing that can excuse the danger and perdition to which he has condemned the world. Hopefully Kyle can find himself a nice, hunky fire-proof man somewhere rather than someone so childish and immature that he can’t face the thought of growing old and who would sell the souls of millions to the devil simply so that his butt can stay perky and firm for all eternity. There is no amount of magic in the world that could make such a man desirable to anyone, much less a hero, once his true colors were revealed.

          • Mago de Won

            jajajaja
            jajajaj
            jajajajajj
            Stop talking nonsense and read “Emotion vs Cognition?” from Damasio. He is a very famous neuroscientist who is well known for his relevant dissertations regarding the importance of human emotions in the decision making sistem.
            jajaja

          • SofiaT

            Mago, your comment was deleted because laughing at another commenter is most certainly against the comments policy.

            This thread is now closed, please stop commenting on it. Any further comments, by you, Maus or anyone else, will also be deleted.

          • Mago de Won

            sorry moderators? are you friends of Merryjest? and what about all the falsehood and lies that he is writting with undermining intentions?

          • Mago, this has nothing to do with friendships or no friendships.

            Right now, whether what Maus said was true or not, is no longer the point. You were always welcome to disagree and explain why you disagreed until it started sounding like a personal attack which is against the Commenting Policy and why Sofia stepped in. She was more than clear the why of it on multiple occasions.

            Now this commenting thread is closed, please refrain from commenting further. All further comments will be deleted.

          • SofiaT

            Hi Mago,

            We’re happy you joined the fandom, as you make some interesting points and help further the discussion!

            However, as you’re new here, you’re probably not aware of our comments policy, which dictates that all commentators reply to one another with a tone of respect and avoiding “you” statements that can be interpreted as a personal attack. http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/comment-policy/

            I don’t think that attacking anyone has been your intention, but I have noticed a few “you” statements on both this comment and others you’ve posted.
            I know that you were impressed with how nice the people here are; so lets keep that nice feeling going, ok? 🙂

            Thanks!

          • Mago de Won

            Ooooooh. I am sorry about that!
            That is a mistake I make when I try to express myself in general terms. Since English is my second language and Spanish my native langauge, sometimes when I try to write en terms of “oneself” I end up using the pronoun “you”, but with those phrases I am meanig something most people would do.
            I admit that in less occasions I have used the pronoun “you” to referr to the other person, but I have done it with my best intentions.
            I wan to be completely honest so I have to say that in two occasions I have responded a bit acidly, but in all those moments I have done that because the other person was responding in a rude or inflamatory manner towards an opinion I have made.

            I personally love to have a constructive debate with other people about certain topic, and I love to learn from other people’s point of view. In fact I always back up every valid argument that someone gives me that is correcting a wrong idea I have, and I also accept inmediately every positive critic of my behaviour and try to better myself inmediately as soon as I can achieve it.
            But I don’t like when people are sensitive about being contradicted and become all political with their argumets and fired up throwing sideway passive aggressive insinuations to place their point of view above others.
            I have seen people here who does that, and they don’t need to use swearwords or the pronoun “you” to say really rude and indelicate things with the intention of provoking, humilliating or undermining others. They are persons who are very expert at diplomatically implying you are stupid or your thinking is inferior when they don’t feel happy because you gave an argument that proved them wrong.
            I feel a bit sad because I have tried to give my opinion in the most happy, constructive and respectful way possible, and I don’t know if my mistake was using the pronoun “you”, but I have received various responses with camouflaged aggressive intentions. In example the users Kiri and Maus Merryjest have responded to my opinion about their comments with understimating and humilliating answers that hide pretty well their intentions. I am more than willing to never use the pronoun “you” again, but if I was wrong for that I don’t understand how come I was the only one that was adviced and they weren’t told anything for making much more rough comments. That makes me feel rejected and treated unfairly. Please don’t forget that swearwords and the pronoun “you” are not the only way to be rude towards others.

            Another thing I wanted to say that has nothing to do with the exposed previously, and maybe this is a bit slushy, but I saw that Alex woolfson, the author welcomed other followers warmly, and I as fan that loves a lot his comic was eager to receive one such greeting, but never did. ;_;

          • SofiaT

            Hi Mago,

            Alex is at a convention this weekend, so has not had the opportunity to read the comments and reply to them; but I assure you, he always makes a point of reading each and every comment that’s posted and always replies to the newcomers and the people who address him directly. I’m sure he will welcome you warmly, once he gets back from the convention and has the time to catch up 🙂

            About your discussions with other people here, I’m sorry if you’ve felt at times that you were under attack, regardless of the lack of “you” statements. I agree that it is possible to make a rude or provoking comment in a way that doesn’t make it a “you” statement directly, but I assure you all three moderators -including Alex who is very protective of all his fans- are aware of that and keep an eye out for behaviour that suggests a lack of respect to other commentators.

            But, as I explained on my other post to you below, sometimes it’s not clear what the other person meant, and rather than coming to assumptions that they were trying to be rude or were implying something, it’s always better to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Moderators like to leave people resolve their own differences and misunderstanding, and come to an accord on their own -like you did with Archidel above- and only interfere when we think it’s absolutely necessary.

            If someone is making you uncomfortable or you feel they’re being intentionally rude to you though, please feel free to contact one of us; also feel free to not reply to someone if you don’t like where the discussion is going.

            The reason I felt the need to write to you earlier, is that you’re new to the community, so you weren’t already familiar with the way this forum works. My posts weren’t meant to scold you, they were meant to guide you; both Maus and Kiri have been around for a little longer than you so they should already know how things here work.

            Of course, it’s always good for everyone, long-time commenter or not, to be reminded of our Comments Policy from time to time -you know, even moderators are humans and get caught up in a discussion at times.;)

            I hope I have helped answer some of your questions and alleviated some of your fears; you’re a valued part of the community, you have not been singled out as a scapegoat and I’m sure you’ll hear from Alex soon enough. Everyone does at some point! 😀

          • Mago de Won

            I will ask you this directly: please tell Maus Merryjest to stop the arrogant dissertation he/she is pretending to give me.
            What makes me more angry is that I am a graduated psychologist and all the stuff he/she is saying about the emotions not being part of the Cognition like all basic psychological processes do is lot of crap. Cognition is as superior Psychological process, and as so it comprises and integrates all the basic psychological processes.
            Maus is so disrespectful that he/she thinks that he/she only has to search two words on wikipedia to sound know-it-all and that is enough to throw a dissertation over someone else treating them like stupid children he can patronize.
            And since I am a real psychologist and know he/she is talking a lot of bullshit pretending to make me seem ignorant I am getting pissed off. He/she doesn’t even know how pretentious he/she is and how bad he/she is looking to me now telling all that shit about emotions like if he knew a lot to, trying to deceive a psychologist who can clearly see his/her farce.
            What he/she didn’t know is how unlucky he/she would be by findind the worst person to pull of his acting scheme.

          • SofiaT

            Mago, if a particular comments thread makes you angry or uncomfortable, please don’t feel like you need to participate in it any longer or put people in their rightful place. I can understand how frustrating it must be to feel like people are treating you in a patronizing way or insist they know more than you in a field you feel you’re more qualified in, but everyone here is entitled to their opinion, whether we think it’s right or wrong. You can tell someone that you think their ideas are wrong and why, but not accuse them of being pretentious or ignorant or make them feel that their opinion has less value than yours for any reason; that constitutes a character judgement and can be construed as a personal attack -something that is strictly prohibited by our Comments Policy.

            I have been keeping an eye on this discussion since yesterday, since it was obvious it was becoming a bit heated, so I will ask everyone on this thread now to stop commenting and move on.

            Thank you.

          • Steven K.

            We have to remember that perhaps Kyle thought that something with Duncan may have been his only chance at intimacy with someone after all those years of not only celibacy, but not even masturbating, given that Duncan is fireproof. Not even masturbating from adolescence to 18 (except that one tragic time) is a pretty heroic accomplishment in itself. Also, “hindsight is 20-20” of course. All the points are valid, but Kyle was/is rather young, naive, and inexperienced – especially even in the ways of interpersonal relationships and romance and interpreting people’s motives. And Duncan was so experienced and so good at manipulation, and said every one of the right and proper things to Kyle, that any good and sensitive and considerate and caring person would say with someone before and during their first time. Kyle had not learned certain life-lessons yet. Now he’s a bit more wise in a personal sense to the evils that people are capable. If Kyle continued in a pattern of such types of decisions even after the time by which he should have learned those lessons, then one might have a better rationale to criticize his decisions.

          • Martel733

            I am pretty sure they could find an empty blast furnace somewhere for him to jack off in. Hell let him into an empty fire chamber of a coal power plant and have clean energy. Asbestos body glove?

          • Maus Merryjest

            That’s an interesting thought, of course.

            But I wonder if Spooky wouldn’t be able to do some research into any sort of mystical procedures that might render someone immune to fire- at least for a short while? That would certainly get rid of Kyle’s hardship in finding a partner. Or at least in finding a partner he won’t burn to a crisp.

          • SofiaT

            Hi Maus,

            This thread is now closed. No further comments will be allowed.

            Thank you.

          • Grosse Schwarze Zehne

            i read the whole issue down there ‘n there is one of maus s comments missin here.

          • Maus Merryjest

            Which one is missing?

          • Sorry, Maus, as I just mentioned to GSZ, this thread has been closed. I’ll be deleting both comments.

          • Grosse Schwarze Zehne

            ahh i see it was a mistake

            since i was postin on that topic up there i don t know why but half of this thread appeared on top of all coments as if part was reposted.

            i guess is glitch of my tablet.

          • I’m sorry Grosse Schwarze Zehne, this thread is closed.

          • Grosse Schwarze Zehne

            okie dokie mod

          • Martel733

            Gee he stopped mass murdering, but hasn’t done anything to help people for redemption.

          • Martel, this comment thread is closed.

  • silibub

    Looks like the dudes have woken the dragon — hopefully she shuts this down and gets them refocused on the task at hand by the time Spooky homes in on the ritual site. (Is the tension getting to him? “Focus, Mitch” is a bit terse compared to his usual demeanor.)

    Tsunami strikes me as the type to say something like, “I don’t care if they’re gay, but they don’t have to rub it in our faces” about something innocuous like a couple guys holding hands in public. I.e., the especially annoying kind of prejudiced that tries to disguise itself as tolerance — but only if you keep that homo stuff in the dark where it belongs, we don’t want to see it out here! And it’s grating how he keeps using Mitch as an excuse; in the interlude he uses Mitch’s presence as reason to hide the homoerotic fanart, and now to obliquely criticize Kyle for coming out to the team. Mitch obviously takes exception to it, so it isn’t even a good excuse. (Plus, at fifteen years old and with his technological acumen, it’s highly unlikely that Mitch hadn’t given himself an online sex education of sorts before the interlude. My personal views on porn aside, that’s just the way things are these days.)

    Point is, I agree with other commenters that Tsunami probably wouldn’t be so concerned about Kyle discussing his sexuality in front of “the children” if he were straight. And the fact that he’s getting all angry and defensive indicates that Paul’s onto something, in my opinion! I don’t doubt that he really does want to keep everyone safe — he clearly takes his guardian duties seriously, even if his execution is flawed — but that doesn’t mean he isn’t influenced by prejudice and that he won’t redefine “safe” to mean “free from any discussion of homosexuality.”

    I might as well add that I really like the direction Alex has taken with Tsunami — that is, not making him blatantly homophobic, but rather an example of how even reasonable people can be prejudiced. The good news is that reasonable people can come to understand that they were wrong, challenge those prejudices, and grow! It’s been interesting reading the various reactions to Tsunami in the comments. He might shape up to be one of the more polarizing characters in the comic. But I like him as a character, because of that potential for growth.

    Great page — the writing and art are both on point! Thanks, team!

    • Thank you, silibub. 🙂

    • AseretZone

      I think Spooky got so irritated because Mitch made them plummet for the second time this trip, and that’s not even including when he dropped the car on the way to picking up Kyle. I’d be pretty irritated with him too, even if the fight WASN’T adding unneeded tension to the air and distracting Mitch AND Spooky from their work.

      I think the Commander finally stepped in because of that, actually. She was gonna let them sort it out, but they keep dragging in Spooky and he needs to concentrate and Mitch keeps getting distracted.

      • SofiaT

        Hm… Spooky is very level-headed and empathetic.
        While he’s admonishing Flyboy for his loss of focus, I don’t think it’s him he’s irritated at. He wouldn’t snap at someone for making a mistake, that’s not who Spooky is. Remember how cool he was when Mitch almost dropped the car? And it wasn’t like they were on their way to a party that time either, Fluke, the more hot-headed of the two, was very agitated back then on the other hand.

        I think it takes a lot to ruffle Spooky’s feathers and even more to make him lose his patience. Judging from that and the monosyllabic answers he gave to both Tsunami and Fluke on the previous pages, I’d say it’s their argument that’s getting to him. Whether it’s the content, the timing or both, I believe he could do with both Paul and Gordon shutting up soon.

  • Terri Sutton

    I have gotten the impression that Adam is using a realistic travel time to have some character development and some interpersonal drama, as oppose to having instantaneous travel and having the characters bicker with each other during a fight like other comics do. I really like it.

  • Kate G

    Uh oh, you have unleashed the tiger. Prepare to be slashed. *cue Eye of the Tiger song* <-no idea why that song is cued in my head.

    In ALL fairness, we have no idea of Gordon's past. We don't know if he was raised in a very conservative home where talking about sex is seen as crude and crass or homosexuality is seen as a sin/bad/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. We don't know a thing. So, yes, we can see him as a villain here or we can see him as traditional American. If this was even ten years ago, Tsunami's views would have been valid in terms of sexuality and talking about sex so freely.

    And let's talk about Tsunami not using his words effectively. If you think about your father, does your father have the best communication skills? I know my dad, who is a retired Army major, DOES NOT. In fact, when it comes to trying to go out at night without having a friend…the conversation usually ends up like Tsunami and Fluke. Tempers flaring, my saying I'm 25 and I should be able to go out by myself at night to watch a movie at theatre, my dad saying I can't go because there are bad people in the world that will take advantage of me and because he has supreme authority of me because I'm living under his roof, and we go back and forth yelling and biting each others heads off until my mom has to cut in and send us both to our respective Batcaves to stew (his is the basement, mine is my room.)

    So yes, Tsunami isn't quite sponging with the rest of the team, but he is incredibly realistic. He reminds me quite a bit of my dad in some respects.

    • Martel733

      Kate join this group and he will feel better about you going out alone.

      http://www.pinkpistols.org/

      • Kate G

        That’s not the problem; it’s mostly the fact he is quite paranoid from his experience as a cop and from the Army. A lot of it I get, but it gets frustrating. I actually know how to hold a gun. I’ve shot a BB gun, but I should learn to shoot a real one.

  • *pokes head in for a minute* ,,,,Are we really doing to ignore that Mitch just said GDI? ……and Papa Bear who is all “must protect the youngest from blah blah blah” just ignores it? I mean all PBG would have had to say is “Watch your mouth young man” before going back to his argument with Paul.

    • True, if he were truly concerned about that sort of thing.

      On another note, I’m more concerned with how upset the pilot is becoming. Don’t upset the pilot. They might not have a lift home. Of course if he really wanted to get everyone’s attention, he could do some loop de loops and body rolls. 😀

    • Jen Roberts

      Maybe that was deliberate? On the part of Alex, that is. Maybe Gordon *says* he’s all about protecting Mitch, but really gay guys just make him uncomfortable and he needs something to hide behind. Like a 15 year old. Wait, that sounds… er… nvm

    • strangeangel24601

      I’m guessing it’s just that so much is going on right now and emotions are running so high that it didn’t really register. He *did* essentially just get called a homophobic bigot by one of his closest friends.

    • AseretZone

      I got the impression he was muttering it and only Spooky heard, if he did. Even if he wasn’t, Gordon wouldn’t hear it over their argument. Heck, he didn’t even notice when Mitch got distracted, Spooky had to remind him to keep his focus.

    • JesBelle

      Mitch, baby, you tired of being treated like a baby, yet?

  • baranchi

    Poor Kyle looks upset. But Paul. I’m loving Paul more every minute. Protective friend is just the best.

  • Klaus

    It is very irresponsible to have Mitch standing like that. If the plabne is jolted for any reason, e.g.turbulence, they are all in trouble. Does his power not work if he is is strapped in a seat?

    • anonywolf

      Mitch can fly – if they hit turbulence and he was thrown in the air, likely he’d just float there…

      • Klaus

        While the plane plummets. And what if he hurts his head on the wall?

        • anonywolf

          Blessed if I know. I find it unlikely. I equally find it unlikely that his powers don’t compensate for turbulence, since he’s going to come across that when he’s flying outside of an aircraft too.

  • Maus Merryjest

    And Commander is about to pull a Glinda: “F— chill, I’ve got this.”

    Go ahead and get them straightened out (no pun intended), commander.

    *Popcorn*

  • N7

    Um… this is sort of off-topic, and sorry if it’s already been addressed (or is a secret?), but when is Kyle’s actual birthday, date-wise? I’ve been wondering it for a while, and, now is a good a time as any to throw down a random question. (⌒-⌒; )

    …I wonder if he’s an Aries…? ;D

    • Klaus

      The fire signs are Aries, Leo and Saggitarius. Leo, ruled by the the sun, seems most appropriate.

      • N7

        Well, I didn’t think it was likely that he’s a Sagittarius because of how the weather has seemed in the story. I didn’t feel Leo matches his personality, either. I was thinking Aries because it’s ruled by the Red planet, Mars, who was a warring God, and is symbolized by a ram. As far as appearances go, it looks like Kyle. XD

  • twincast

    My, what a big plane you wield, Flyboy.
    I just noticed the, ahem, shape of it. XD
    Did we get such a clear shot of it before?

  • Adi Zeller

    “I personally don’t give a damn about who any of you mess around with during you off-hours” “Kyle has lied to us, he’s been hanging out with the guy responsible for all this for god knows how long and he’s at least haf demon”

    Contradicting yourself much?
    Also – when did Kyle lie about that?

  • Sunseahl Silverfall

    Reading some of the comments and noting a bit of personal experience I’d like to give my take…..

    Tsunami is really uncomfortable at this point. Anyone like him, who really didn’t care about if someone was gay or not, wouldn’t lash out like that when confronted by it. At this point we’ve had a heated, but somewhat civil, argument about the boys involvement and it only escalated once the issue of “gay” came up. People who disagree or have “uneasiness” with “gay” in many families are well and good to ignore that it even exists until it’s made public. Then hell sort of breaks loose, current situation as proven point….

    Still… We’re also witnessing a situation where a man had become a father figure and is at the same time, aside from his personal feelings about any topic, is also unwilling at the moment to accept that his “kids” are growing up and should be able to defend themselves or assist with potentially dangerous situations.

    Remember… Most of these boys have applied to other hero groups and have been denied for either being too young or for being an unknown element. In this Tsunami is fighting himself in whether or not to believe like the adult groups or to actually let the boys prove their worth.

    I also think everyone present for this spat is also forgetting a few key things that led to this predicament in the first place…. Yes Kyle lied. Why? Kyle has had no one he’s felt he can relate to about loving men. Something that makes you different makes you feel like an outcast.

    Add to this is that he’s another type of outcast, a “too young” superhero. Outcast type after outcast type, to him, is being poured over what he feels he is, who he is, and the final thing that would seal him in stone as a “freak” is that he’s a lover of men while being a man. In this thought he’s HAD to hide himself. Not because it’s wrong or it’s illegal but simply because it’s, in his mind, the very crux of him never being able to participate in anything.

    The Annihilator set fire to buildings purposefully so that Kyle could feel like a hero. We now know that the events were a ploy on Annie’s part but what was revealed was that Kyle never really felt like he helped until that point. Even in the beginning Kyle felt unable to control his power, Annie even mocked him for it. This is another thing that’s crashing down over Kyle. A wrong he desperately feels he has to right. Yet for all the bickering back and forth Kyle has said the least. Why? Because he feels he has the most to lose…. Family, Friends, Respect, but above that… what happens to a superhero that “goes bad” ? Would Kyle be “wanted” for being a super with no affiliation? Would he be hunted like Annie was on their date?

    Still… No matter the argument at hand though, or the parental ruling. The ultimate decisions of what to, or not to, do lies with the individual making the choice, regardless of consequences.

    • Martel733

      Do you think if a str8 member had sex with the top evil priestess in the world and had the same results, that Tsu would be giving them high fives? Would he not be mad that he could be playing video games instead of dealing with the world ending because a str8 member couldn’t keep it in their pants? Choice and consequences are dealt with by heroes, its villains that make excuses for their actions.

      • Sunseahl Silverfall

        A straight person isn’t outcast in “normal” society, and straight sex isn’t something constantly harassed by religious Dogma. So I think you’re trying to explain my point away with a false equivalence. Otherwise you’re point is so confusing.

  • purplefoxglove

    Wait, Gordon, first you blame Kyle for keeping secrets (which, if I understood you correctly, includes him being gay), and then you blame Kyle for not keeping his sexual orientation a secret? Because that’s what, IMHO, you’re implying when you say you’re not thrilled about Kyle deciding to share his sex life with Mitch.
    As for the deciding part: Kyle never wanted to tell any of you guys about him being gay. Given the way you’re reacting, I can’t really blame him. But if Kyle didn’t want to lean back and watch things – quite literally – go to hell, he had no choice but to tell the team. What did you expect him to do, send Mitch out of the room? Cover his ears while explaining what happened and why it happened? ‘sides, what’s so bad about knowing Kyle is gay? Yeah, well, I know this point has been discussed at lengths in this forum, but I had to get it out of my system. Grr.

    …why, yes, I’m having a fictional argument with a fictional character. A heated argument, that is. And it’s a good thing Tsunami is fictional, or else, I could probably prepare for a cold shower.

    • Darkanimefox

      I think it might be less the fact that Mitch now knows that Kyle is gay and more to the fact that Mitch knows sex happened. Granted we don’t know how much he told them like you said but he still would have had to mention that the ritual happened in the middle of sexual interaction.

      At least that’s what I’m getting out of this since he already said he didn’t care that Kyle was gay and ‘sex life’ usually includes whether you are or aren’t having sex, not what gender you like.

  • AseretZone

    I’m getting the impression that people think that since it’s a comic about how Kyle is gay, that that is Gordon’s main issue. It’s not. Even if it was porn of him and Commander, he’d still hide Mitch’s eyes. Even if Kyle dated the PP, he’d still have complaints. He’s a very conservative guy who is thinking of what is best for the team.

    Right now, he doesn’t know where Kyle’s loyalties lie. He doesn’t know how long Anni and Kyle had been hanging out before they started actively dating. He doesn’t know if he can trust him, and so he doesn’t want him in the battle where he can possible turn on them. Fluke is focusing on the idea of “homophobia” because of the gay porn chapter, but that was because it was gay and he’s never seen how he reacts to other sexual things. I think what Gordon is saying when mentioning Mitch here is talking about how Kyle told Mitch about how he was literally screwed by the Annihilator. If it was the PP, same issue. It’s a kid. You don’t tell kids about what you did with your date in bed last night.

    Let’s leave off the homophobia claims, because Tsunami has already said that is NOT it. For the record, I am fine with homosexuals. I still get TICKED when someone tries to claim I have a problem with them! Fluke is scapegoating and not paying attention to the REAL problem: Can They Trust Kyle? How long has been fraternizing with the enemy group and what else has he been hiding? Tsunami has no clue, and it’s scaring him that they could be flying into a trap.

    • silibub

      I see where you’re coming from, and it’s true that we haven’t seen enough of Tsunami to know for sure if he’s very conservative about sex in general or just gay sex. The way I read Paul’s claim that Tsunami doesn’t like gay people, however, is that Tsunami has reacted aversely to the topic of homosexuality several times in the past, not just during the interlude when his disgust could have been written off as discomfort with seeing drawings of him and his friends having sex and not necessarily with the gay aspect. (Just because we haven’t seen how Tsunami behaves regarding sex beyond the interlude doesn’t mean Paul hasn’t.)

      Although, speaking of the interlude, the fact that Tsunami seemed unalarmed and curious until he asked “Where are the girls?” and found out is was homoerotic fanart, at which point he acted disgusted, suggests that it wasn’t the pornographic nature of the drawings that was the main issue, but the fact that it was gay porn. He was grossed out and irritated even before Mitch showed up, and I believe he used Mitch’s presence in part as an excuse to make the rest of the guys stop looking at and talking about the fanart.

      MItch is technically a kid, you’re right. Fifteen years old is still a minor, and I agree that if his older teammates told him in explicit detail about their sexual escapades that would be inappropriate. But I can’t believe that Kyle would have gone into that many specifics, and we don’t know if he told the whole team about everything, or if Commander and/or Tsunami talked to him on their own at one point to get the grittier aspects of the story sans Mitch. Basically, I think the most Mitch could have heard about Kyle’s sex life is that Kyle slept with the Annihilator as part of the scheme that involved opening a path to hell. That’s hardly explicit, and hardly too much for a fifteen-year-old to cope with. I think at that age it’s fine to hear about sex, in terms of education and how to be safe about it. Kyle’s time with Duncan isn’t supposed to be titillating to the rest of the team, but is just an aspect of his and Sircea’s plan that they have to know about.

      I think you’re right that Tsunami’s main issue with Kyle is that he doesn’t know if the team should trust him, but I think Tsunami’s lack of trust could be exacerbated by his prejudice, and that’s sort of what Paul is getting at by bringing it up (even if he did it in an inflammatory manner, but hey, tempers are running high.)

      This is already getting really long, but I guess my final point is that just because a character claims something, that doesn’t make it gospel. Tsunami says he doesn’t have any issue with gay people; Duncan said he didn’t start the apartment fire, and we know how that turned out. Characters can be unreliable sources about their own actions and prejudices, and I’m willing to bet that’s what’s going on with Tsunami here.

      • SofiaT

        *points arrow to silibub’s comment*
        Everything you just said. My thoughts exactly!

    • I wrote a very very long comment, and in the best traditions of the internet, my computer then crashed as I was checking for other replies before hitting post. I’ll try to remember. Hopefully this will be for the best and make the post shorter.

      What I do remember is thinking that the quotemarks around homophobia and some of the remarks in the last paragraph are…potentially kind of illchosen and upsetting….

      as to the other points

      1. Homophobia – and if you don’t like that term, can replace with being anti-gay – doesn’t require its sufferer to be brandishing pitchforks and calling for all gays to be imprisoned or killed. Like racism doesn’t require one to be a card carrying member of sympathiser of the KKK. At its essence is a belief, conscious or not, that gay people are inferior to heterosexual people on various levels purely due to their sexuality.

      2. “Let’s leave off the homophobia claims, because Tsunami has already said that is NOT it.”
      One can be a homophobe while denying it. In fact, most do. Extremists are a minority. The Daily Mail of the UK denies it is a racist, sexist, gay-hating paper. QED. The majority of homophobes are the kind of “I’m not a homophobe but”….

      “I’m not a homophobe, but I wish they wouldn’t display it so much.” “I’m not a homophobe, but I wish they wouldn’t get so uppity.” “I’m not a homophobe, but I wish they wouldn’t keep shoving it down our throats*.” (* badly chosen metaphore c.f. closeted self-hatred)

      The “but” is the essence of most homophobia. If you pardon the pun.

      3. Tsunami’s comment reflects this “homophobia-lite” type. I have to admit, I was expecting the worrying signs of the last page to turn out to be a colossal misunderstanding. I thought Alex was just tricking us with the red-herring of Tsunami’s disgust about RPS.

      4. But as another commentator said earlier, Tsunami’s comment here is typical of the “don’t ask don’t tell” attitude, which is homophobic.

      He is acting as if Kyle went up to Flyboy and said: “Hey, Mitch, guess what the Annihilator and I did in bed? First of all, we did some serious thingy-smushing. You don’t know what that is? Well! Thingy-smushing means we got out our cocks and rubbed them up against each other, and then I came all over him in a great fiery splash! And then we went to hell, which was just as well, as otherwise Anny would have wanted to sodomize me, and his cock is so big he would have split me in half! What, you don’t know what sodomy is? Here, let me show you a video – oh noes, you’ve caught The Gay from me!”

      We have no reason to believe Kyle went any further than just acknowledging the fact that he went out on a date with Duncan, and some form of sexual activity occurred afterwards. I doubt he even went into the details to Spooky and Fluke, and you can see that Flyboy was out of the loop anyway on the whole ride to rescue Kyle.

      And I very very very much doubt Tsunami would have said this if it had been the PP who bedded Kyle. He may well have if pornographic details had been mentioned. But this is almost undoubtedly not the case. So would he be yelling at Spooky for mentioning a girlfriend? Amanda if she talked about her parents, thus clueing-in Flyboy into the existence of heterosexual sex?

      Tsunami’s attitude makes me thing of those people who berate gay people for coming out of the closet, saying “your sexuality is none of our business, why shove it down our throats” …and yet ignore how many times heterosexual people have “come out” in the past by mentioning their marriage, their husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/children, etc. Because it is so normal.

      Tsunami makes me think of those who pushed through Section 28 in the UK, stopping children from learning of the existence of homosexuality in case it “promoted” it to them. “Promoting” being the same as letting them think it was morally equal to heterosexual sex.

      If Flyboy has learned anything of this encounter with Kyle, it is that men can date men, and there is some form of sex men can have with men. He already knows that men date women, and that heterosexual sex exists. So that is why I do not believe Tsunami would have made this comment if a woman was involved. And as such, I find it homophobic. And he’s not going to get a cookie from me just because he isn’t calling for Kyle to be stoned.

      5. Fluke is scapegoating and not paying attention to the REAL problem: Can They Trust Kyle?

      Again – if Tsunami doesn’t want Fluke to focus on the homophobic comment, he shouldn’t have made it. If he makes 10 comments about why Kyle should be chucked off the plane, and 9 of them are valid reasons and 1 homophobic, people are still going to comment (and justifiably!!!) about the homophobia. Even more so, actually! If he has valid reasons, why does Tsunami even need to use the anti-gay angle?

      Of course, neither of them should be arguing. It’s absurd, really, and Amanda has intervened far too late. I am incredibly, incredibly disappointed in Tsunami – they are going into their first fight, potentially the end of the world, and he is squabbling with one of the junior members he is meant to be the deputy leader of, underming his Commander’s decisions, and tearing the team apart. For someone who likes to go on and on about Kyle’s judgement, me thinks he is throwing a couple of his glasshouses at some stones….

      • yeah, oops, think it got bigger than smaller.

        Rather like Duncan’s thingy (sorry, Tsunami!).

        • SofiaT

          *snort!*

    • Steven K.

      We don’t know what, if anything, that Kyle himself (i.e., directly) actually told to Mitch concerning what happened to him. We were not given a Kyle-Mitch “reunion” scene after Kyle came out of the warehouse with Paul and Spooky, nor anything concerning any conversation they may have had together since then.

  • Cman65

    NIce plane , shame it CAN’T FICKIN FLY

  • Keneu

    One thing I like about this comic is that the characters are realistic. I can totally picture this argument happening in real life, leaving aside the superhero stuff.

    To me Tsunami sounds a bit uptight about anything related to sex -whether that’s all kinds of sex, or just gay sex, it’s something we don’t know yet. If it turns to be just gay sex, I hope he can eventually wrap his head around it and sort out his prejudices.

    Both Fluke and especially Tsunami are being insensitive. Kyle is in front of them after all, but they are ignoring him. Instead of asking him to validate their points, they ask the other members of the team when they have more urgent tasks to do.

    Commander steps just in time, before the argument derails even more. Next week’s page is going to be interesting. Also, I wonder what Mitch has to say about all this.

  • wraightsky

    Just adding my input… having come from a very conservative, military family, I believe there is a difference between someone being ‘uncomfortable’ vs. ‘homophobic’. Emotions are rarely so black & white.

    As for Kyle… he may be legally an adult, but he was played hard. Kyle has shown that he can be easily manipulated. Let’s also not forget that Kyle’s actions put BILLIONS of lives in jeopardy. This isn’t about Kyle anymore… this is about something larger. And, Kyle, as much as we all probably love him, is a liability, straight out.

    • Archidel

      Indeed. It should also not be forgotten that Kyle was a vital part of Anni’s and the PP’s plans against his will once already and that they may be able to use him again, no matter how much that may not be his intention.

      Kyle is connected to Hell, is connected to Laampros, is connected to Anni’s/PP’s plans and that alone makes him a liability regardless of anything else. They have used him before to open up a portal to Hell, they may be able to do so again. Or worse.

      • wraightsky

        I agree that he’s not showing the best leadership skills right now. Really, it’s the young’ins that are pushing, pushing, pushing and are bringing up sensitive topics, and he is reacting very poorly to it. That said, if he didn’t want them there, he shouldn’t have let them come on the ship in the first place.

        • EyeDontNo

          But, as 2IC, he didn’t have the power to keep them off the ship in the first place; Commander did. He and she discussed and conversed, and 2IC no doubt gave her his reasoning, but Commander decided. Since he couldn’t make her do it his way, he’s expressing his doubts to his team.
          Now that the expressing has turned into name-calling, Commander has to step in and bring things back to focusing on being team members.

          • wraightsky

            Very good point!

      • Steven K.

        OR – he might just be the one person, or the most important person, who can thwart or fix things, BECAUSE of those connections – the knowledge, the relationships, etc. We don’t know. Best to bring him along, just in case, since he MAY be the most important person with the most knowledge and abilities related to this whole situation. E.G., what if he could intercede with his father in some way? + he seems to be able to damage “indestructible” Duncan, etc.

      • IamM

        If they needed him further for the ritual they wouldn’t have let him go. Spooky should know if there’s a mystical connection they could exploit. Kyle is a liability on this mission, but it’s because he’s just been sexually abused and feels angry and humiliated.

        • Archidel

          Obviously it’s true that Kyle is not part of Anni’s/PP’s established plans anymore, or they indeed wouldn’t have let him go. That said, they might well still be able to use him if things don’t go the way they planned. They were able to do so before after all.

          I fully agree with your second point though about Kyle being a liability for those reasons as well.

    • Mago de Won

      You are right about things being black and white, but I think Gordon is being subtly homophobic since he is implying Kyle being gay is something the others shouldn’t hear about.

      And you are making it sound as if Kyle diciding to have sex or not with Duncan was a billions of lives situation, which sounds funny. There weren’t all those lifes at stake in his decision because Kyle had no clue his sexual encounter could be used for that sort of ritual.
      It is making him responsible for someone else’s plans and actions.

      • wraightsky

        Ignorance really isn’t an excuse though. It was made very clear that Kyle knew exactly who Duncan was. Kyle chose to be involved with a man that was considered one of the biggest and baddest villains to exist. It’s not like he met a random stranger and it turned out that the stranger was evil and used him. He openly walked right into the lair of a known criminal. His desperation was used against him, and whether it’s fair or not, he shares some of the burden of responsibility.

        • IamM

          Kyle was naive. But he didn’t have any reason to think he was putting anyone but himself at risk by going with the semi-retired supervillian who never went for indiscriminate killing. And the dastardly duo played on his heroic instincts to ‘earn’ his trust.

      • Steven K.

        “It is making him responsible for someone else’s plans and actions” – DITTO that as well !!!

    • HermeticallySealed

      I would point out, though, he was easily manipulated because of circumstance he was put into by outside forces; i.e. being gay in a society that, even at best of times, treats being gay as a joke. It took me a while to come out to my friends. Even though they weren’t aggressively anti-gay, they still had a tendency to make off the cuff jokes about gays, or insulting each other by throwing gay slurs at each other. I’m sure they didn’t consider themselves anti-gay, but from my standpoint, I had no clue how they would react to knowing I was gay, I just knew what they showed.

      Is Gordon really homophobic? He might not think he is, but for whatever reason, he (and the others) gave Kyle some reason to be afraid of them finding out. Gordon certainly reacted badly in the side story. I can’t fault Kyle seeing that and being hesitant to come out.

      • Steven K.

        “I can’t fault Kyle seeing that and being hesitant to come out” – EXACTLY!!!

      • RD

        I agree with a lot of this. I’m going to see if I can add another level that I haven’t seen anyone introduce up to this point. Paul’s motivations in this argument.

        Gordon wasn’t the only one Kyle was nervous about coming out to. He was hesitant to come out to anyone, including his two best friends. We know that it isn’t just Gordon who was making jokes about homosexuality that caused Kyle to be nervous about people’s reactions. We know that there were statements that read as anti-gay from a number of people…including Paul.

        In this argument we see Paul playing the defender of Kyle, and the defender of homosexuality. We know that Gordon is not the only one who has been careless with his words in the past. Paul has already specifically apologized about that to Kyle (Chapter 3, page 24) so it is entirely possible that Gordon is used to having Paul say exactly the kinds of things he is saying now.

        I think it is likely that Gordon has a certain level of low-grade homophobia going for him. I don’t think it is irredeemable, but Gordon is going to be one who is going to make some of these hurtful comments as he learns. It’s going to take him some time.

        If I were to give Gordon the benefit of the doubt, I would suggest that it takes a long time to learn a new language. All his life Gordon has been around this kind of language of veiled intolerance. It is the only way he knows how to communicate the idea of homosexuality. It is the only language people around him have used, so it is the only language he has to fall back on in this situation. It is going to take him some time to learn the language of tolerance. I have the feeling (possibly mistaken) that Kyle might understand that. Kyle has also had everyone around him use this language to talk about homosexuality.

        Which brings us back to Paul.

        As much as anything said or done previously, this is Paul’s reaction to Kyle’s sexuality. Paul has discovered that his best friend is gay, and has been called out on his own homophobic/anti-gay language. He feels like he has to prove his support of Kyle, and so he is being the over-supportive friend. Unfortunately he is being supportive by aggressively calling out the language of a teammate. Language that he recently, thoughtlessly, participated in. I think that a large part of Paul’s motivations here are that he is trying to prove himself to Kyle by, partly, attacking a part of his own past behaviour that was hurtful. And that past behaviour is currently personified by Gordon.

        It would not surprise me at all if, sometime in the not-immediate-but-near-future, Paul were to slip in his language and thoughtlessly say something homophobic/anti-gay. It’s a process.

        It is a very human response, but definitely not a good one.

    • IamM

      I don’t think there’s any hard line between ‘uncomfortable’ and homophobic any more than there is with racism or sexism etc just many shades of gray blending continuously from one to the other. People can’t help the way they were raised but that doesn’t give their feelings any special protected status. For example if Kyle having gay friends or a non-supervillian boyfriend made Tsunami uncomfortable that’d be understandable but ultimately just Tsunami’s own problem to deal with or not. Kyle has no obligation to put his life on hold until Gordon’s ready to join PFLAG.

      I think the only valid Kyle-specific reason for Redhot’s not being part of the fight is his emotional involvement. Someone who’s angry or feels a need for revenge or redemption might let it cloud their judgement. But I notice T hasn’t said anything about that, he stuck to (sort of deniably) impugning Kyle’s character and loyalty.

  • Karendrae

    It’s important to remember that as readers -we- know that Kyle was just manipulated. We know that he’s good guy. Nobody else really knows what went down. They’re going off of their feelings. Tsunami is pretty wise for taking someone who lied/jeopardized billions of lives and benching them. Fluke is a good friend for trying to stand up for someone he’s friends/ team mates with…but he’s also being foolish.

    I like to imagine this conversation if it were reversed. What if as readers Kyle decided to -join- Anni? What if it was all staged and Kyle was sending them right into a trap because he decided that Anni was right? We as readers would be cheering on Tsunami and palm facing that Fluke wasn’t looking at the bigger picture.

    I honestly don’t think Tsunami is homophobic. Homophobic’s become scared and then violent. Like my sister when she finds a spider and it gets too close. Sounds to me like he thinks it’s rude to tell children about sex, and doesn’t find homosexuality appealing.

    • Mago de Won

      Homophoby is also a social attitude and a political stand in which people disapprove and reject homosexuality implying it is something
      wrong and unwholesome that shouldn’t be talked about as if it would spread like a disease.
      Some people think it is just an opinion and a position about other’s sexualities that is no big deal, but is the same as if someone white told that being black or latin is bad example that shouldnt’ be given so the wrong behaviour doesn’t spread.
      It is a detrimental and harmful attitude that undermines psychologically other people who are part of a community, and then is justified by telling is a personal opinio that should be respected. Freedom and respect are only real and correctly combined when action and attitude spaces of two persons don’t trespass each others boundaries. That is the reason why the only opinions that are personal and should be respected as part of someone’s inner world are those about neutral things like objects or concepts; on the other hand opinions about persons, human conditions or communities have effecs on others and generate concecuences, that is why the opinion about people is a moral matter with responsabilities more than just a personal freedom.

    • HermeticallySealed

      I am going to have to disagree about homophobes all being violent. There are many people who are bigots that don’t get violent towards the objects of their hate or disgust. Many public figures who are antigay routinely interact with gay people, yet still work to criminalize homosexuality, or declare it destructive and sick, all while they try to prevent or strip gays from having the same rights as straight people.

      For that matter people who claim that they have no problem with gay people, but just don’t want to see it or hear about are being homophobic. They still hold gays to different standards than they do straight people.

  • bronakopdin

    thanks Amanda for cutting him off at exact that moment 🙂

    Even though I could have imagined some nicer content I’m soooo happy that today is an update on my 25ths birthday! 😀

    thank you for all your hard work Alex, Adam and Vero! I have to admit I consider this new page today one of my best presents xD

    (and why is Kyle sharing his sex life with Mitch?!?!? Does he mean the sole info about him being gay or?!?! Anyway that sentence gave my heart a jump xD awesome ^^)

    • purplefoxglove

      Happy Birthday! 😀

      • bronakopdin

        thanks dear 😀

    • TwoWayStar

      Happy 25th birthday!! :DD

      • bronakopdin

        thanks a lot 🙂

    • Happy Birthday!!!

      • bronakopdin

        thank you 🙂

    • Happy Happy! 25’s a good year. 😀

      • bronakopdin

        it actually means a lot of financial troubles for me xD

        thanks for the wishes though 😀

        • Aw, sorry to hear that.

          Hope it was a good day though!

          • bronakopdin

            sure 🙂 I mean I knew of course, that it will come t this so I took measures xD
            and hey! Germany is World champion now! A day later then my BDay but still another nice present ^^

    • That makes me very happy to hear that one of our page updates made a nice present for you, bronakopdin. I hope you had a totally awesome birthday. 🙂

      • bronakopdin

        I had work half of the day ^^ but can’t be helped 🙂 I had a nice evening though 😀 a friend came over to watch soccer xD Well I’m German, can’t be helped x3

        thanks for the good wishes 🙂

  • Hughlock

    No. In my experience, the typical homophobe, when faced with an argument in favor of gays, will cast about for a way to change the focus of the argument, like hmm, I don’t know, talk about the CHILDREN. Oh dear Lord, the CHILDREN!!! Hence, Tsunami’s crack about Kyle bringing his filthy lifestyle into their midst, so that a little boy (a 15-year-old young man) might hear. I’m sure Tsunami did not complain when heterosexual conversation reached those same young ears. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . .

    • Archidel

      Except, you’re not sure, are you? Since we haven’t see any heterosexual talk occur around both Tsunami and Flyboy. So there’s really no way of knowing how Tsunami would respond to that. You can only assume that he’s being homophobic, based on your own presumptions about him.

      You may well be right of course. Tsunami’s demeanor certainly suggests as much, but you can’t know at this point and it is always dangerous to assume you know what’s going on in someone else’s mind. So I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. For now.

      • But it doesn’t make sense to assume Tsunami also hates the reporting of heterosexual relationships – it happens so “normally”. If Spooky mentioned he had a girlfriend, would Tsunami freak out? If Amanda mentioned her parents were married, would Tsunami be yelling at her for implying the existance of heterosexual sex in front of Flyboy? Unlikely!

        • Archidel

          Agreed, if that is all that’s mentioned. If however (and we don’t know exactly how much Kyle told them) Kyle mentioned that he had sex with Anni in front of Mitch, Tsunami might be taking offense to that. Just like he very well might have taken offense if Kyle said as much about the Platinum Priestess or any girl/woman.

          If he only mentioned that he dated Anni, then yes, Tsunami’s reaction would indicate homophobia, but as I said, we don’t know how much Kyle told them. Given his personality I doubt that Kyle went into details, but some people respond badly to even casual mentions of sex.

          Also keep in mind that I’m not saying Tsunami is definitely not homophobic. I suspect he is, to at least some degree. That’s all it is for now though, a suspicion. A strong one, but an uncorroborated one all the same.

          • Mago de Won

            That doesn’t make sense. Seems like wishful thinking.
            Throught the story there have been situations about them talking of heterosexuality. Like when teammates told Spooky he made a dragon appear to show of in front of the girls, and in that time Gordon didn´t act uptight about sex topics.
            Also, when Gordon saw the gay images he said that it was disgusting, twisted and sick while his partners didn’t react the same way. For me that escene clearly shows the difference between accepting straight guys and homophobic ones, and it all happened before Mitch came in the room.

          • Archidel

            Perhaps I’m not expressing myself clearly enough here. Or more likely, we just have different ways of thinking. The thing is (and I might have stated that more strongly in previous posts) I do very strongly suspect that Tsunami is mildly homophobic at best or a total homophobe at worst. Partly because of his reaction here, partly indeed because of the scene you mentioned.

            I also, however, have a tendency to be extremely (perhaps excessively so) rational and analytical about things. So while I feel that Tsunami is likely a homophobe and while there is evidence to suggest as much, so far it remains circumstantial and could also be attributed to other factors.

            Talking about showing off for some girls for example, is hardly the same thing as talking about having sex with a supervillain three times your age. And the pornographic images might have offended him because they were about him and his friends, not because they were of a homosexual nature.

            As long as no conclusive evidence for Tsunami’s homophobia is presented, I will not conclusively assign that characteristic to him. It’s as simple as that.

            People have often told me I should have become a criminal defense attorney. Not sure if I should take that as a compliment.

          • Archidel

            As an addendum to my previous post, I would like to say that yes, I am aware of the fact that there is a lot of insidious homophobia in society for which such conclusive evidence is damn near impossible to obtain.

            My way of thinking is not necessarily helpful in rooting it out (which is why I am actually glad not everybody shares it), but I guess you could say that I’m just a very strong believer in the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” and dislike absolute statements where no absolute certainty exists.

            Also, while I would regard anyone I suspect of such surreptitious homophobia with great skepticism, I personally would simply prefer to be judged (for being a gay man) over unjustly judging another.

          • Mago de Won

            ok, whatever you like….

          • Mago de Won

            whatever dude…

          • Just to say…while I too picked up a bit of concern on the rationality part, I never had any impression of anger or passive-aggressiveness here in this particular thread.

          • Mago de Won

            You are right. I was wrong saying that, so I erased it. I felt too that even if the debate was intense he was very polite and never insinuated anything disrespectful.
            And even changed the post to erase some words that would be unnecessarily confrontational.

          • “Thank you for being a great follower in this community.”

            Aw! You too! 🙂 Who needs mods? :p

          • SofiaT

            Hey! 😛

          • Double hey! 😛

          • I thought I sunk you two. How do you keep surviving?!

          • SofiaT

            I told you we’re unsinkable but you don’t want to believe it!

          • Mwahahahaha!

          • Archidel

            You’re not wrong. It is irrational. I did also say i was perhaps (which from me means, probably, which from me means almost certainly) excessively rational and analytical, to the point where it can really hinder me.

            As for the part about me being “neurotically afraid of making a mistake and being criticized”… Doing much better these days, but it took me years of therapy because that is exactly what I was and some vestiges of that do still remain. Probably always will.

            I do indeed have a strong need to be able to explain and/or define everything. I have issues, I’d be the first to admit it. T

            hat said, I do mostly just enjoy reading this story and it is fun for me. I just can’t quite shut off the parts of my personality described above completely or all the time.

          • Mago de Won

            Please forgive me. I am pretty sorry, I did wrong. Since I have studied psychology some times when I get fired up in an argument I use strong words that are very harmful. Please forgive me. I should not have reminded you of those past things. That was rude of me.

          • Archidel

            It is quite alright. It’s not like I’m not used to talking about them by now, after 6 years of therapy, 3 of which in group therapy. I lost count of how often and to how many people I’ve told my life’s story. Things much deeper and more personal than I mentioned here too. Like I said, I’m used to it.

          • Titan4Ever

            You don’t seem weird to me, if it’s any consolation. You simply need to be very, very precise. I was raised to be very similar. I bet you enjoy etymology and root word derivations very much.

          • I doubt Kyle did go into any sexual details about him and Anni – especially not in front of Mitch. We can already see that Mitch is being kept out of the loop on the way to rescue Kyle.

            At most I think all Mitch knows is that they went out on a date (males can date), and that some form of sex happened (males can have sex). Given that he no doubt knows males and females can have sex (unless he believes he was brought by the stork), I can’t see any inapprorpiateness there.

            It would be completely different if Kyle had gone into lurid detail, or of course if he had been showing Mitch gay porn. There, I think Tsunami’s reaction would be justified, and there would be no reason to suspect Tsunami would have acted any differently had it been with the PP, or had it been heterosexual porn.

            But because all Flyboy can presumably know is extremely anodyne – to the point where no one would question it if it involved heterosexuals – Tsunami’s comment looks homophobic to me. I didn’t think he was before, to be honest – I expected Alex to turn last page’s worrying signs into a big misunderstanding. But now I am v. disappointed in Tsunami.

          • Archidel

            Try going to some small town in the Bible Belt and bringing up the subject of sex, any sex, even in the most general of terms. You’d be stunned to see just how much some people do question it.

          • But as someone else pointed out (and as I completely missed myself), Tsunami seemed curious about the porn about them all until he realized it was all gay…

            Putting that in combination with what he says here – and the fact that he’s needed to say it at all and lumped it in with Kyle’s general untrustworthiness – it looks quite damning. Obviously there’s no conclusive proof by Cartesian logic standards, but it’s quite damning.

          • Archidel

            Or until he realized it was all about them. It remains inconclusive and as I’m sure you figured out by now, “quite damning” just isn’t good enough for me. No matter how much I agree with you. Maybe that makes me weird, I don’t know. Luckily, I also don’t particularly care. It’s who I am.

          • It had already been said it was about them, and Tsunami was still interested.

          • Archidel

            I meant as in only them. Most people would likely feel weird about being paired in porn to people they see as friends, or perhaps even as siblings.

            Ah hell, let’s just agree that we have irreconcilable points of view. I tend to call things that have a 99% degree of certainty “probable”, because they are not absolute. Most people… would not go that far.

          • I…kind of doubt Tsunami would have been more accepting if the fanart had shown Kyle with Duncan, as opposed to Kyle with Spooky. it’s only when he learns there are no girls that he reacts.

            And re second point – I edited my last post on this. I don’t think we have differing points of view at all – after all, you said you agreed with me. This isn’t a court of law, where, no doubt one could argue Tsunami became randomly deaf when Fluke said the porn was about them, or something on this line.

          • Archidel

            Not legally no. It’s just how I’m wired.

          • …yes, like I said. This isn’t a legal issue. If Tsunami goes on trial for his life, liberty, etc, obviously proof needs to be stronger. But even then, it’s only “beyond reasonable doubt”. Law recognizes that no absolute certainty is possible – using logic, one can argue this comic doesn’t even exist except as a figment of our (or someone’s) imagination.

          • Archidel

            I did admit to being weird this way, didn’t I?

          • I don’t see any weirdness?

          • Archidel

            The weirdness lies in the fact that I can agree with you that the evidence for Tsunami’s homophobia is quite damning, quite likely even beyond what most people would consider reasonable doubt, but it is still not conclusive enough to satisfy my own personal standards for such things.

            Ok, so maybe not so much weird as overly strict.

          • Not to quibble or anything, perish the thought, but saying that “the evidence for Tsunami’s homophobia is quite damning” sounds rather like saying it does satisfy your own personal standard for such things.

            It certainly sounds a lot stronger than saying “I’m not sure.” And quite frankly, actually, like you, I wouldn’t say that I’m absolutely certain he is homophobic. But that phrase does *sound * homophobic to me, as does his bizarre insistance on mentioning it at a time like this, dividng the team when he’s meant to be a leader. And while one, or two, or three pieces of data normally wouldn’t be a statistically strong enough sample, we also need to consider the fact that Alex is not writing a novel here – he doesn’t have the luxury of building a character over hundreds of pages.

            But anyway, plenty of commentators have been saying either Tsunami is not homophobic, or that it is still up for debate, and I myself was one of the latter only last page, as much as I thought Tsunami’s words were worrying.

            So no weirdness here, unless you count the fact that all of us like to comment so much on a fictional character’s possible fictional homophobia!

          • Archidel

            Ugh, now you’re going to make me break my own PS from the last post, but we seem to be running into a language issue here. “Damning” to me means condemning (as in, lending credence to), but not necessarily conclusive, whereas to you it does seem to mean that.

            I personally require conclusive, to the point that my “reasonable doubt” would likely seem unreasonable to most people. Unreasonably small, that is.

            PS Definite last post on this subject. For all the reasons listed above, plus the fact that I wouldn’t want to break my own word twice!

          • I didn’t see what you said about last post before – are we both cross-editing our posts here? Might not have replied if I’d seen that.

            But want to reply this time just to say it’s not true what you think I believe: no, I don’t think it is conclusive, and yes, I agree there is a language issue. :p

            I do think it is probable Tsunami is homophobic based on this page’s phrase. And I’ve seen you also say it is probable.

            And that is a change from my belief of last page, which was that I thought it was just misdirection from Alex /misunderstanding.

            Probable is the key word here, and wrapped up in it are all sorts of assumptions about how likely certain things are. When we say Tsunami is probably homophobic, that means we think it is less likely that Tsunami is violently opposed to even the slightest implication of all sexual relations, hetero/homosexual, and/or that it is less likely he would have been fine with gay porn that involved the gang with outsiders and not each other.

            So, what I’m trying to say is, I don’t think our positions are actually that different at all!. If my language sounds a tiny bit stronger, it is poss because I feel the need to come down harder on Tsunami’s phrase due to other posts below arguing it’s not homophobic at all (see super long post at bottom).

            See you around.

          • Martel733

            In the storyline “damning” is what is happening to everyone outside North America, because Kyle didn’t listen to the “don’t get into the van with the super villain” public service message.

          • Martel733

            not just gay but with his co workers, only one girl on the team so he wouldn’t think it was all with her.

          • Derkins

            I grew up in the bible belt. This looks like an extreme reaction to *me.* Just sayin’

          • Martel733

            So if one of the other guys said “I ate out the most evil super villainess in the world and cast the majority of the world into demonic bondage” you think Tsu would give him a high five?

          • Steven K.

            In this “day and age” – a 15yo hearing about one of his friends having sex – that sex exists – that people do it – that people he knows do it – SHOCKING! – TRAUMATIZING! If Tsunami is being THAT overprotective, he’s being way way unrealistic and his efforts are in vain – as has been pointed out, Mitch could be assumed to have “found out” about such all on his own even years ago, or from just casual conversations with friends in school, etc. And if Tsunami is that sensitive about even the mention of sex (I, personally, don’t really like to listen to people’s accounts of sex of either or any variety unless it’s something I seek out), he better change careers and become a hermit, cuz today, it is EVERYWHERE AND INESCAPABLE.

    • I’m not a homophobe but…

      • Derkins

        lol I just read “how to win friends and influence people” (which i highly recommend to anyone at all who wants success in communicating with others). It’s the “but” that’s the killer. So untrustworthy.

  • Pikinanou

    Nothing like a good verbal fight with your friends before going to war against supervillains. Everybody’s going to be all fired up! At least, if they get there alive, Flyboy is easily distracted, it seems :O

  • EyeDontNo

    Panel 2: Did Mitch go invisible? In every other scene he is right next to Spooky. This panel has a wide empty space next to the demon expert.
    Panel 4: For those who comment about over-protective Gordon not reacting to Mitch’s swearing, in this panel you can obviously SEE Gordon and Paul arguing, but you can’t hear any dialog. This would seem to show that Mitch only drops the plane when one of the combatants raises his voice loud enough to be heard at the front of the plane. Therefore while Mitch has sworn, he didn’t do it loud enough to travel back that far.

  • mogoskier

    Kyle is a quite boy who is shy about sex, so I can’t see him give too many of the graphic details about what happened with Duncan. I’m sure he told them enough so spooky could analyze the spell but not more then that.

    This means that the only sex life Gordon could be talking about is just Kyle saying I have been with this guy and nothing else. If Kyle is not even allowed to talk about that he can never say anything about his love life.

    So yes Gordon you are very homophobic.

    • Exactly. I am sad I can only give you one upvote.

  • TwoWayStar

    He says “share your sex life” like ti was some sort of enjoyable thing that Kyle is bragging about and rubbing in everyone’s faces, like he had a choice.

    That one time that he had “sex”, a major supervillain used him as a portal and is going to unleash demons on earth i am 1000% sure there is nothing happy or brag-worthy in that.

    Was he not supposed to tell his team? Does Tsunami truly think that Flyboy would not flip all his shiz at not knowing what was happening with the mission or what happened so that there is a mission in the first place??? ESPECIALLY since it involves his teammate?!!!!??

    • Poor Tsunami – the gays keep rubbing it in his face and shoving it down his throat…

      🙁 what’s a guy to do? The gay is just so catching!

  • Adam Irving

    What a great development to this argument! For all the grand battles or huge revelations, it’s so nice to see other, um, quieter (?) moments with characters dealt with so nicely throughout the story. Quality, quality. Wish I was not halfway across the country so I could come visit that expo! Sounds very cool.

    I wonder if in the coming conflict, the team will engage and Kyle will have to do something that changes Tsunami’s feelings/perceptions? That would be a neat delayed resolution to this minor plot, though of course there are many ways to handle such a thing. Can’t wait to see!

  • AeeDee

    I know there’s one heavy conversation happening in this page, but really what caught me off-guard is Mitch trying to speak up for himself and being completely ignored. He reacts with genuine anger and nobody seems to notice except for Spooky (and likely the very perceptive Commander). His frustration definitely implies that it’s not the first time someone spoke for him, above him on his behalf, either; even worse, he’s been noticing it.

    What a great page, though. So much happening here. I’m hoping the team gets in a better mood and patches things up, but this particular bit of drama has felt very realistic and compelling.

    • SofiaT

      As a middle child, I can commiserate with poor Mitch -although being ignored because you’re the youngest in a team of superheroes, all anxious and ready to prove themselves, and especially when you have Flyboy’s awesome powers, is probably more frustrating than being ignored for being what I call “the sandwich child”.
      *sigh*

      P.S: Very good comment! Everyone is so into the “is Tsunami a homophobe” discussion, we were in danger of missing other important details of the page. Thanks for pointing it out!

    • r-o-t-a

      I was far more focused on exactly the same thing. Mitch seems very capable, if not a bit clumsy sometimes, with strong powers but also he seems very emotionally intelligent and attuned. He obviously really cares about Kyle and hasn’t had the chance he has wanted to say his piece. So having Gordon speak for him in such a way without being able to put out his own opinion must be very frustrating. He’s quickly becoming my favourite member of the team, in fact.

      It’s also notable that Spooky is obviously not happy about the discussion going on behind him but has a far more important thing to focus on. It’s similar for Mitch but I think Spooky is being mature enough to maintain focus, hence him nudging for Mitch to do the same. The difference there is that Spooky had a chance to say his piece to Kyle while Mitch has yet to.

      We haven’t seen too much proof of Amanda’s reactions to this conversation but she evidently feels the need to refocus the group now that it’s heating up. I get the impression that Spooky’s interjections might even have been an attempt to do the same.

      • I agree with Sofia and AJ. Good insight here and well-put, AeeDee and r-o-t-a. 🙂

        (And thank you for the props, AeeDee!)

      • Oh that is really well written!

    • Yeah…I get that feeling a lot when Mitch is trying to interact with the rest of the team-

      like they’re all “No Mitch! Go do this or go do that or you’re too young.”

      Must be frustrating.

      • Derkins

        Certainly. And you can’t show that you’re read to, or learn to ride a bike, if your parents refuse to take off your training wheels, or to see you scuff your knee.

        • good point-

          exactly, like if they’re just going to use him to fly them everywhere and not treat him like an equal, why even have him on the team?

        • exactly

    • RD

      I agree completely. There is definitely a pattern of the whole team being overly protective of Mitch, and having a tendency to speak and/or make decisions for him. Looking back it has come up quite frequently.

      At the same time, it seems that there is a common trend in this team to speak on behalf of others that we can see very clearly in this scene. Paul is speaking on behalf of Kyle. Gordon is speaking on behalf of Amanda. Both of them are calling on Spooky for evidence, rather than asking the people they are speaking for. Gordon is speaking on behalf of Mitch. This does not a cohesive unit make, and it is going to get them into trouble someday.

  • Wayne Lunkwitz

    Tsunami is really going over the edge there…..if Kyle had not been open with them there would be big issues, honestly , Tsunami needs to chill and focus.

    • Martel733

      Its only been 1-2 days since Tsunami was shown photoshoped images of him having sex with coworkers. He probably would have taken it better if Kyle said with an NYC accent “I let 8 guys take turns screwing me in a graveyard last night” than “I had sex with the top super villain in the world, condemned most of the souls on earth to demonic bondage, helped 2 of the top villains get eternal youth, & ………. “.

  • Michael T.

    i’m seeing a lot of people defend tsunami in the comments by saying essentially, “he’s not that homophobic.” or “maybe homophobic is too strong a word, he’s just uncomfortable” but nah, from what we’re given as readers, he’s clearly homophobic. he may not be actively trying to kill gay people, but he’s regurgitating a lot of anti-gay rhetoric that i, and i’m sure many other readers, have heard. everything from blaming kyle for being closeted, and by extension the general existence of homophobia, to how kyle’s corrupting the youth of their team! furthermore, paul even explicitly states that it’s known that tsunami is not in favor of homosexuality. tsunami may be well intentioned, but he’s being a bigot.

    the three reasons tsunami doesn’t trust kyle are because of his lineage, because he was closeted, and because he was seduced by anni. tsunami can fuck off on the demon spawn front. spooky, the resident demon-expert trusts kyle and has given him the okay. this should be a non-issue. it’s homophobic to equivocate being closeted to lying, plain and simple. as for the third point, a 50-something year old man seduces and then sexually assaults a barely-legal teenager and tsunami is going to sit here and blame kyle for that? like, i’m sorry but i have no sympathy for tsunami’s side of this argument right now. he’s being a massive ignorant fuckface, whether or not he truly believes he’s doing right by the team.

    the only even almost good point he’s brought up is that kyle might be needed to continue/finish the spell. however, spooky would have to be the one to make that call because he’s the magic user of the group. an obvious counter-argument to literally his only good point is that kyle is the only known weapon that can harm the otherwise indestructible annihilator.

    i also just want to reiterate that when anni and the priestess made this plan, they didn’t know what kyle’s sexual orientation was, while tsunami doesn’t know this necessarily, we as readers do. that pretty much means that they were confident either of them could seduce kyle. given this information, i cannot in good conscience blame kyle for poor decision making. no matter his choices, no matter his sexual orientation, one of them would have worn him down until he trusted them completely and then they would have violated his trust and started the spell

    tldr tsunami’s being a huge dick, maybe not irredeemably so, but still stop defending his weak-ass arguments in the last few pages: he’s being an asshole

    • Martel733

      I have to think there would be some sort of superhero guidebook that says don’t have sex with a tier 1 super villain, report if an evil priestess casts a spell on you and get checked out after. I have worked at multiple places where they said during orientation not to date/sleep with co workers. One place ,on the first day, I was warned not to have sex with 2 specific women by name because they spread STDs whenever they get them. Before anyone says anything about patient privacy, these 2 skanks should have been listed in public service announcements “if you touch these 2, green stuff will drip out of your urethra”.

      Keep in mind Ani is still a villain despite going easy on crime, he basically said ” I stopped mass murdering and now just rob from people that work 70 hour weeks”. There would be some sort of plan or procedure to deal with villains trying to convert young heroes”dont get into the van with the red raper”. Kyle would not be the first hero to have sexual complications with his powers, Rockwoman would need a jackhammer for a vibrator. Kyle just needs an asbestos body glove.

      Tsunami probably would have taken it better if Kyle said he like some NYC gheys say “I had an eightsome in a graveyard with complete strangers last night” than ” I had sex with a tier 1 supervillian let an evil priestess cast a spell on me, condemned the souls of most of the world to demonic torment, while delivering all of North America into the hands of 2 villains, last night.”

      I have heard some gheys say that a guy is a bigot if they wont have sex with a guy he knows is HIV+, you come off like one of them. Kyle did have a choice just like people have a choice not to have sex with a guy that wont use protection. Real men take calculated risks, and heroes make hard choices. Kyle has to redeem himself, & he has to accept the consequences of his decisions. There are some that believe the military flies free crack cocaine into the inner cities, & forces blacks to take it as a way of absolving them of their poor decision making.

      Spooky is not exactly a demon expert, and he might not have encountered any 1/2 demons before. He might be good at killing them, but psychoanalyzing them is a different story. That’s like saying A-Rod & Serena Williams are good chemists/endocrinologists , while Michael Vic is an expert on dog psychology.

      How would you feel if some straight guy at work was telling you about how he ate out a girl on the rag? . How would you react if someone showed you a photoshoped picture of you having a threesome with Oprah & Rosanne Barr? Str8s don’t have to kiss your ass to accept you, and a guy like Tsu probably gets hit on a lot. Some NYC gheys forget its not kosher to try to pick up guys at urinals not in gay bars. You also don’t need to force Christian bakers to bake you a wedding cake for the same reason you shouldn’t take a new boyfriend out to eat at a restaurant your ex works at, the ex is a lot more likely to ruin the food.

      • Martel, please don’t use that language. (ie skanks, gheys, etc) It is inflammatory and disrespectful.

        • Steven K.

          I didn’t feel that spelling of “gays” as “gheys” was disrespectful, but then again I wasn’t familiar with that alternative spelling. I was just left feeling rather puzzled by it, as I had not encountered that before. Does it represent something? Does anyone know the “story” behind “gheys”?

          • It’s someone trying to be clever and failing.

          • SofiaT

            AJ, go have some dinner.
            My oven is broken and I don’t have any muffins to give you 🙂

          • I guess I do need a snickers bar. 🙂

          • zunden

            The only explanation I’ve ever heard is from people who want to be able to say, “That’s so gay,” without technically using the word “gay” as an insult. So, they spell it “ghey” instead. Why you would use that in place of “gay” when you’re discussing a gay person makes no sense to me, in that light, because it would be intentionally using the insult version.

            To be honest though, from the quotes that are still there (since the original comments aren’t), I really can’t tell why that person was reading this webcomic at all. I mean, what’s quoted there sounds pretty homophobic to me (although it’s obviously out of context so I might be misunderstanding it), so I don’t know why they’d want to bother unless they’re trolling.

          • IamM

            I’ve seen it used humorously/ironicly by gay people referring to homosexuality, gays, or the gay community as “The Ghey” or “The Gheys”. Kind of like if a black comedian like Chris Rock or Wanda Sykes were to say “I was in a bad mood the other day. Because I’m Black.” Black people don’t like people telling them their personal feelings and opinions are a racial or ethnic characteristic. But they can make jokes about people having that attitude toward them. Gay people don’t like being reduced to some undefined faceless vaguely threatening mass ‘other’ supposedly out to oppress the holier than thou types who have apparently spent the past two millennia just minding their own bidness and perfecting their recipe for sacramental cupcakes.

            The spelling is just internet funny and I think implies an exaggerated pronunciation (Actually, Rachel Maddow uses that pronunciation when she’s talking about the ‘religious right’ or ‘social conservatives’ trying to “protect” things like marriage and public accommodations from “The Ghey”. Don’t know how she spells it.). So, it’s “The Ghey” like “The Blacks” or “The Jews” or. “The Ladies” with massive eyerolling to indicate how absurd the concept is. I never saw someone try to use it as a slur before, but I don’t hang out where people would either so I don’t know.

        • Martel733

          What would be a good term to use for str8 women that spread so much disease that a community health clinic would break the HIPAA law to warn people not to have sex with them by name? If you are in the US it was your taxes supporting STD treatments for 6+ guys a week when they had a new STD. In the 3 years I was there they infected hundreds of guys, and they infected others in turn.

          • You call them women. BUT, such discourse really has no place in the comments. Please refrain from engaging in such topics. This is a web comic, not a news site. Thank you.

          • We’re all these deleted parts of the thread removed for being offensive or deleted by the poster?

            Just asking because Regarding the removal of comments that are part of a thread:

            Could there be a discussion amongst the moderators and Alex about whether offensive comments should be removed vs. hidden WHEN PART of a larger thread for which the other comments remain?

            I just ask this because it’s not just frustrating to read a thread with comments in it, it is also confusing and I think ultimately contrary to communal well being in that often there is a fairly large hole(s) in terms of understanding the controversy and thus others may not fully internalize what was deemed unacceptable, potentially leading to a repeat.

            I have seen other commenting systems allow for the flagging and/or hiding of unacceptable comments when part of a larger thread such that later readers are able to, if they so choose, toggle, say a hide/ unhide option in order to preserve continuity of the thread…

            …continuity of the thread being of concern here.

            Alternatively, maybe the entire thread could be removed, because again, it’s frustrating, confusing, and ultimately counter productive to communal health (I think).

          • Thank you for your concern, Daniel. 🙂

            The individual these posts came from was banned after a multitude of warnings, and his posts were subsequently removed.

            I know it’s confusing, but to leave his posts would have been more disruptive. They were filled with inflammatory and hateful language. Nor did they offer anything to any of the discussions but bile.

            As far as I’m aware, Discus does not have that setting to hide the posts until unhidden, other than if an individual hides a post themselves. But I will discus it with Alex and Sofia about the comments left behind.

          • Hi Admiral!

            I was thinking that it might be educational/ informative for other readers to be able to see precisely why X was flagged or Y was banned.

            For example, I understand that inflammatory or hate speech is unacceptable but sometimes there are distinctions that may not be obvious like the following:

            About a year ago when the whole Duncan betrays Kyle stuff went down, there was lots of back and forth about the Reddilator (sp?) ship vs the Firefly ship and Alex stepped in at the end and issued a general warning as well as a direct one to me (because I wrote a comment about torpedoing the Reddilator or whatever it was called).

            My point here is that I never even considered it to be anything other than playful banter until Alex quite forcefully declared such posts to be…I can’t remember how he phrased it but I think it was something to the effect of such comments were harassment or such.

            This leads to my larger point of, had I not had that direct experience

          • Hi Daniel,

            I understand what you’re saying, but there was a difference between that post and these posts. These posts, and as you can see there were many of them, were also filled with derogatory and racist statements, and truly needed to be deleted. I really don’t believe there was any learning experience to be had in this situation. Several warnings were offered and ignored and so measures were taken.

            If you wish to discuss it further with Alex, please feel free to. 🙂 He’s at GaymerX2 this weekend and so may be a little delayed in answering.

            AJ

          • Again, I think that there is great educational and communal value not in suppressing unwanted material, but rather in shining a light on such and collectively neutralizing the poison.

            I don’t mean to be argumentative or combative so I hope I’m not upsetting you, it’s just that I have had many personal experiences as well as observations of others in which it is expressly stated that XYZ is not allowed, persons ABC are in assent, but then person C doesn’t really actually understand XYZ and so inadvertently commits the very thing they assented to avoiding (I know it might seem I’m being pedantic here, and I hope that I can convince otherwise).

            Case in point, here it is stated that the comments were “derogatory” and “racist”. These are both attributes that are commonly eschewed in communities all across the Earth these days…but what do they really mean?

            “Racist” I think is pretty straightforward and clear to pretty much everyone, though I am one of those people who shy away from assuming that anything is obvious and prefer to be explicit and provide clear examples.

            “Derogatory” however is actually, I think problematic because again, many people have very different senses of what constitutes derogatory.

            A year ago I would never have thought that playful teasing of another person’s beloved ship might constitute derogatory behavior or whatever, but a year later, when I saw the warning on Namesakecomic.com warning about shipping conflicts, I just thought, “Duh.”

            What happened in that time frame? Like I mentioned, I learned more about the significance of shipping and the undesirable nature of shipping conflicts (I now understand them to be tantamount to a personal attack upon another person because one is essentially belittling that other person regarding their preferences).

            Again, however, if everything was pushed back in time to a year ago, and I was told, “Don’t be derogatory in your comments,” I would have totally assented and then I would have shoved my foot in my mouth as I ignorantly mocked others ships thinking myself to just be engaging in banter.

            Once more, I really do hope I don’t come across as being obstinate/pedantic/whatever.

            Having worked in Human Resources, and having administered sensitivity trainings like Sexual Harassment Prevention, I know that it is all good and well to tell people not to do X, but in order to be truly effective, there can be no confusion lingering as to what exactly X is, and often the best way to remove that confusion is to use precise, detailed, real examples (and we did, we would use very precise, detailed accountings of actual sexual harassment cases within our company).

            I realize all this might be a pointless discussion as Disqus, as you note, may not allow for a hide comment option, I just want to make the best case for why I think it’s actually valuable to somehow preserve the continuity of a comment thread (though possibly flagging/hiding offensive aspects).

            Anyway, not sure what to say to Alex other that copy pasting or such these comments.

          • Daniel, the comments are deleted. Now unless you (or anyone else) become irrational and start spouting racist and/or homophobic ideals and using vitriolic attacks against fellow commenters, all will be fine. 🙂

            As it is, I already said I would be discussing the left behind comments with Alex and Sofia. Alex is at Gaymer X promoting Artifice and TYP and so unavailable for such until later this evening.

          • AJ-

            I know. I think I’m just trying to say, that I think it’s worthwhile to discuss a different approach for the future.

          • So noted. 🙂

          • Yay!

            I love how the initial wave of this exchange was super in depth this that and whatever and then the final bit is-

            “I think a different approach is worthwhile” or whatever

            and then

            “So noted.”

            Berivity!

      • Michael T.

        first of all, similar to what admiral jane said, ‘gheys’ is like, at best a really weird term for gay people, and at worst really disrespectful and inflammatory. i’m gonna make this response short because we obviously disagree and i’m not trying to start like a debate or anything. i’ll say my peace, you can respond if you want to and that’ll really be it for me.

        as for your first paragraph, you read the same comic i did. ani’s seduction was believable and kyle’s choices, while not The Best, weren’t ridiculous or unbelievable or ill-intentioned. he was a 17/18 yo teenager being manipulated by a much older man. simple as that. as for all of the consequences to kyle’s actions you listed in the 3rd paragraph, he didn’t do any of that on purpose. he didn’t consent to the spell ani cast on him. he was being lied to and actively manipulated. you can place some blame on kyle for being gullible i guess? but that’s still pretty shitty. he’s a victim of what is legally defined as fraudulent rape, albeit with more dire consequences than what happens with most fraudulent rape cases. i’m really confused as to how you’d think i would demonize someone for not having sex with someone they didn’t want to have sex with??? that’s a weird take-away from my response imo. i feel kyle definitely understands the consequences of his decisions and is actually beating himself up too hard over them. i think kyle really needs to take to heart the stuff spooky said when he took kyle away from paul.
        i think my exact phrasing was “resident demon expert” as in, out of the entirety of the young protectors, spooky seems to know the most about demons. i don’t see how that’s much of a stretch, but w/e. re: your last paragraph, it’s been said in other comments that kyle doesn’t seem like he would have said more about his sex-life than necessary to educate the team on what happened. like, based on how insecure kyle is with talking about sex, you know, because of all the traumatic things that have happened to kyle because of sex, i can’t imagine kyle saying more than like “we had sex during which he cast a spell” or something even less graphic than that somehow. i doubt kyle would even say the word “orgasm” let alone go into graphic detail.

        also i have no idea what you even mean with these two quotes, at best they come off as non-sequiturs:

        “There are some that believe the military flies free crack cocaine into the inner cities, & forces blacks to take it as a way of absolving them of their poor decision making.”

        “How would you react if someone showed you a photoshoped picture of you having a threesome with Oprah & Rosanne Barr? Str8s don’t have to kiss your ass to accept you, and a guy like Tsu probably gets hit on a lot. Some NYC gheys forget its not kosher to try to pick up guys at urinals not in gay bars. You also don’t need to force Christian bakers to bake you a wedding cake for the same reason you shouldn’t take a new boyfriend out to eat at a restaurant your ex works at, the ex is a lot more likely to ruin the food.”

        • Steven K.

          WOW – I wish I could upvote this comment/defense a couple dozen times. Other than your remark to the last 2 quotes from the other reader with which you end your comment, about which I will remain neutral, I wholeheartedly agree with EVERYTHING you said and the way you put everything as well. BRAVO!!!

          • Michael T.

            thanks! i’m glad you liked my mini-rants lmao

    • Awesome!

    • Derkins

      You are so right on. The victim blaming and homophobic rhetoric (as you put it) is getting to me, too. I wrote about it as well, higher up.

  • Midwestmutt

    Methinks he doth protest too much.

    • Phyre Storm

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Tsunami himself weren’t a perfect Kinsey 0.

  • Nate

    Take him down, Amanda!

  • Phyre Storm

    Someone seriously needs to remind Tsunami of the most important rule of being a superhero.

    • Brad Johnson

      Don’t be a prick?

      • Martel733

        Heroes make hard choices and deal with the consequences of their actions. You think everyone would forgive that quickly?

        • Phyre Storm

          Kyle knows he screwed up and already feels horrible about it. Treating him like he’s not actually on their side anymore is just shitty, and implying that his sexuality is something that should have been kept from Mitch is WAY out of line.

          • Martel733

            There job is akin to firefighters. Go down to the nearest fire station tell the chief you are thinking of volunteering and ask if its ok to talk about having sex (with the opposite sex of you) in mixed company while on duty.

          • Phyre Storm

            How, exactly, was Kyle supposed to avoid telling Mitch he had sex with Duncan? It’s an integral part of why he needed to be rescued from the warehouse. It’s not like he was bragging.

          • Steven K.

            There’s no evidence that KYLE told Mitch about it at all.

          • Definitely.

      • Phyre Storm
        • SofiaT

          I loved that page *happy sigh*

          • Phyre Storm

            Heh, me too. And now I can also enjoy it for another reason: Duncan getting his ass handed to him.

          • Maus Merryjest

            Kyle’s *other* superhero persona: The Invisible Streak!

        • OMG!

          I forgot that bit.

          Thanks for sharing.

  • Mago de Won

    Moderadora Sofia T por favor revise la respuesta que escribí frente al llamado de atencion que me hicieron por usar el pronombre “you”. Esta abajo en la parte inicial de los post. Gracias por sus concejos.

    • SofiaT

      No te preocupes! Yo ya lo he leído y respondido. 🙂

      (Btw, Spanish is a third language for me -meaning I learned it even later that I learned to speak English- and it’s been quite some time since I last used it, so excuse any mistakes)

      • Mago de Won

        I didn´t feel I was more qualified. I am more qualified and that insinuation is very disrespecting towards other people’s professions. Not only is my career but I also have academic references for the argument I was exposing.

        • Derkins

          This is a free community. Credentials are nice, but we all get to (respectfully) voice our opinions here, no matter our background.

          There is a thing (meme) that goes,
          “How to start an argument on the Internet.
          Step 1: State an opinion.
          Step 2: Wait.”

          So if you have access to certain knowledge, facts, or perspectives, because of your studies, that others may not be aware of, understand, or agree with, then you are pretty much guaranteed to have someone try to trump you. And they may not be at all nice about it. They may be purposefully inflammatory.

          It’s important to remember not to take others too seriously, or their opinions personally, when sharing yours. We can share what we know, but we can’t control how others respond. If we expect everyone to be nice 100% of the time, we are making ourselves vulnerable to the incredible spectrum and extremes of humanity that frequent the internet, and setting ourselves up for pain. I’m sorry that you were offended in the exchange that so many of us didn’t actually get to read. I hope that you are able take something from the experience. That’s all we can do when we run into trouble — try to learn from how to move through it more smoothely, next time around.

  • Brad Johnson

    Seriously, Tsunami? Mitch is 15, not 5. I’ve known guys who *came out* younger than him.

    • Yeah…15 is ridiculous to set as some sort of magic cut off.

      • Derkins

        I know tons of people who lost their V-card before that age. Not that 15 is a great age to start having sex. Just saying. Kids do have an interest in it at that age. Not that long ago girls were expected to be married and bearing children by that point. If you can’t talk to a kid about sex by the age of 15, then you are probably damaging them. They need to be comfortable with sexuality, and see that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I was uncomfortable with it at that age, and I am still working the addressing inhibitions I built up when I was young. These things stay with us.

        In my opinion there is so much left over archaic protestant thinking in this country has lead America down a path that has a really wrong attitude about sex. I like talking to people from other countries about it, who have healthier views. My ex-boss and close friend, from Brazil, said every family down there (I think south america is good about this) keeps condoms on the backs of the toilets, so that teens know that sex is not only normal and okay, but something that requires certain precautions. They would never have such a “don’t mention it!” response to teens learning about sex. Something they are supposed to enjoy for the rest of their lives, with the starting point just a few years down the road for them, if not sooner.

        • You’re taking the words out of my mouth!

          Yeah-

          It’s idiocy to insist that adolescents…even children, aren’t sexual because they are…

  • Mago de Won

    Followers of this post I am sad about all this, but I will leave this community for good.

    Other follower posted comments filled with lies and undermining intentions towards me. He was only seeking to humilliate me telling false information about concepts handled in the career in which I work. He pretended to treat me like a stupid and patronize me distorting these concepts to justify his arguments. When I reacted to his opinios I admit my coments where inflammatory but not least provoking or disrespectful than the intentions implied in his comments. But the moderators kept erasing my comments which apart from having a direct mockery didn’t have any swearwords in the phrases other than this one: “what you are saying is shit”.
    They not only defended their subtle way of insulting and disrespecting, but they impeded me from defending myself exposing me to the humilliation he intended.

    They say it is because of the rules, and that the rules promote respect, but the rules are incomplete. They are: not using the pronoun “you”; not using swearwords towards the other person; and don´t telling the other person has a void argument. But they forget there are people here who are masters at avoiding these rules and insulting and provoking others through passive-aggressive insinuations and comments that pretensiouly patronize the others treating them like stupids through opinions that contain implicit bad intentions.

    SO THE RULES HERE ARE NOT FOR THE SAKE OF RESPECT BUT FOR THE SAKE OF AN INSTITUTIONALIZED WELL ASPECT OF WORDS AND WRITTING. WHICH IS THE SAME AS AN EMPTY FACADE.

    The person who pretended to insult me through dimplomacy is: MERRYJEST, an old member of this community.

    What a great desappointement I take in my heart to know he treated me like a fool telling false concepts about emotions when I am a specialized psychologist, and he did so with the help of the community moderators who refused to erase his rude and more than long comment while they prosecuted and deleted my responses which didn´t have any outrageous content that were more damaging than his.

    THE RULES IN THIS POST ARE UNBALANCED AND UNJUST.

    Having said this taking care not to write anything that could be an excuse for the moderators to erase it, I wanna make a protest before leaving permanently:

    WHOMEVER THINKS THE RULES OF THIS POST ARE INCOMPLETE AND PERMIT SOME FOLLOWERS TO ABUSE OF THE SPACE AND OF OTHER FOLLOWERS GIVE PLEASE A THUMBS UP TO THIS COMMENT, SO AT LEAST MY LEAVING SERVES THE PURPOSE OF BETTERING THIS COMMUNITY.

    • Steven K.

      I’m very sorry to hear this. I can empathize to a certain degree with your feelings. I left for a long time partly due to persons misinterpreting certain comments and a somewhat, as I thought, mis-application of the rules. I probably did not get to see all of your comments, but the ones I did see and read were, in my opinion, very well thought-out and rational, and I did see that you were more than apologetic and sincere in it when you made some disclaimers that nothing you said was meant to hurt anyone else or that it was not your intention to upset anyone. I liked the comments that you posted, and the logic you used, well enough to “follow” you and your posts, which I do with only a rather limited number of persons here. I’m so sorry that the comments of others and the actions of moderators have made you feel that you are forced to leave the discussions. I know the feelings you are experiencing and how humiliating it can be when unfairly disciplined or attacked due to misunderstandings and/or prejudices, and you have no ability to defend yourself or have that ability – or rather opportunity – taken away. I have noticed the comments of another reader here lately that I’ve found much more rude or disturbing than any of the posts which you made that I was able to read. If you ever want someone to talk to about this, or someone with whom to discuss the story, as you no longer feel comfortable doing so here, I am open to you. skklans@yahoo.com

      • Mago de Won

        ¡Thank you!
        You got no idea how much I needed what you wrote.
        Thank you again. I will add you to my e-mail contacts.

    • I know I missed some of this, because my disqus decided to glith out on me when this page was posted, and I just got it back.. but taking a quick look at things this is a page which raises a lot of opinions as well as a lot of responses.

      Sorry to hear you felt singled out, but it can be hard to interpret opinions when it’s written and everyone has their was of saying things. Misunderstandings and misinterpretations of a comment is easy. You felt attacked by another person (who btw. is just as new in the comments as you are, not that it should have any matter) so the best way is to stop arguing with the person.

      If you have different ways of saying things and opinions of how to say them, but don’t feel you’ll come to an agreement, step away from that thread and move on. Tell the other person that you will agree to disagree and stop it there.

      I know several of us have had to do that, including myself, but it has meant that peace is kept and I still comment – also with some of those I have had a different opinion with on certain matter. I just make sure not to go to that topic with that person again, or don’t talk to that person at all while keeping it going with others.

      Comments sections are made up by people from all over the world, so it’s about making a balance. Stepping back from a debate is sometimes the better solution. Just tell the person, and if this person doesn’t respect it then it’s their comments that will be stopped. At least that’s how it is here on TYP.
      I personally have the opinion that if one person argues with me, it’s just a matter of single opinions, but if several argument/debate against what I said then maybe I’m either wrong or word what I say in a bad way.

      Wether or not you let one person stop you from talking to anyone else on a specific comments section, in this case here, that is up to yourself.

      • Mago de Won

        ¡Thank you!
        I know you just have the intention to calm me and mediate in a way that problemas are diminished, and I agree with you on the things you expressed.
        But there is something wrong in the way you think the discussion went on with that person.

        First, I never “spoke” directly to that person. I was having a nice debate with someone else and that person stepped in with the rude intention of “putting me in my place” as if I was being rough or pretending to have the truth which I didn’t. I don’t do that because that is a behaviour I dislike profoundly. In fact, the intention of that person was to treat me like that, like if he had the truth and whatever I expressed was stupid nonsense.
        Second, since his first reply he used a very acid and patronizing tone which I never used with the other person I was debating with. For correcting me this person used an inadequate concept of emotions that was of his own invention, which I found ironical since he was lecturing me like a child and I am a psychologist. I admit I didn’t like the situation so I responded with a few smart remarks that anyone can verify were far less rough than his previous reply, and I included the up-to-date concept of emotions in my answer.
        Third, my answer was shorter and friendlier than his first reply, but he later answered to that with a 14 paragraph reply filled with a more disgusting tone and correcting the academic concept I exposed to him as if I was an ignorant wannabe.

        I believe everyone thinks it is outrageous when you are exposing an adequate academic concept with a more respectful tone and the other persons corrects and lectures you with something of their invention in an arrogant manner.

        • Phyre Storm

          I didn’t think the other person’s intentions were as bad as you seem to think, but I agree that if you deserved a warning, so did they. Personally, I didn’t see any need for public mod intervention at all (beyond perhaps a simple “Hey, guys, let’s keep it civil.”)

          • Mago de Won

            I agree with you. because I felt treated unjustly I might be magnifying his rough attitude. Maybe apart from behaving arrogant and writing with an “I have the truth” attitude and “your point of view is unthinkable” arguments he wasn´t doing much else.

            But the situation in which I consider I was disrespected and abused was the completely unfair intervention of the moderators.

          • If you have an issue with actions of a mod, I’ll recommend you emailing Alex rather than taking it up in the comments. That way you go right to the source, and won’t risk crossing the line of making it personal attacks.

          • Did the mods delete that person’s reply, or is this one:
            http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-ch3-page-42/#comment-1481664200

            If it is, while I disagree with the pov, I don’t see anything insulting there. If this is the post in quesiton, don’t think he was intervening to put you in your place: it’s common for people to join debates that were previously just between two people. And in line with Danish Wolf’s comment above, tones never translate well on the internet.

          • Maus Merryjest

            To clarify: none of my replies were deleted, that I can see. The original reply that was deleted contained a curse word, which is what I think brought the attention of the moderators. I was not online at the time and I only saw the reply in my e-mail inbox. By the time I got home and got to the boards, that and other replies had been deleted, so I have no idea what the mods said.

            I have a very specific style of debate: I attack ideas directly. If I find an idea flawed, I will call it such and make a rebuttal. At no point have I called anyone’s credentials into question, for I had no knowledge of the person in question’s career… nor would that be a swaying element in my point of view. I prefer to avoid the arguments from authority and concentrate solely on whether an argument is sound or flawed.

            I do not know the person behind the moniker, only the ideas they put forth. Unless an insult or an accusation are thrown into the ring, personal attacks do not factor into the conversation: anyone can come to bad conclusions, regardless of who they are or what profession they practice. The critique of an idea is not the critique of a person, and I think the poster took my direct tangents on the ideas they presented as a sort of indictment of their person. This was never the target.

          • Mago de Won

            I think a 14 paragraph response is pretty emotional for person who boasts about how rational he always behaves.
            And I don’t see how an academic reference ins’t pertinent in a debate where part of the conceps are being invented and need clarifying.

          • Maus Merryjest

            You are equivocating length with emotion. I am very thorough, that is all. It is a habit I developed during the years in which I studied at a Jesuit school.

            I also have five years of psychology (course + practicum) under my belt. I attended the Universidad Catolica de Guayaquil. I then changed careers and entered the Rimsky-Korsakov conservatory. I also do have extensive training in philosophy and one of my ethical essays analyzing on U.S. immigration law (“The Unethical Nature of Current Immigration Laws”)
            has been employed by a few pro-immigrant groups as supplemental literature.

            I am very aware of Damasio. I have Descartes’ Error in my Kindle library, and I share many of John Bickle’s criticisms of the work. That I subscribe to a different theory of emotions does not mean that I am ignorant on the subject.

            Now that we have assembled our respective CVs, maybe we can continue discussing whether or not Amanda is going to put Tsunami in his place or not.

          • Mago de Won

            Then you should control your emotions so debates are productive and not one sided aggressive monologues.

          • Maus Merryjest

            I believe the record shows that the multi-tiered explosions have not come from me. The assumption that my critiques of an idea were some species of personal injury was followed by an explosion and a farewell letter- again, not from my side.

            Must we continue like this? I am not breaking civility, but I must point out that there has been a consistent “it was all your fault” motif recurring here, and it has not been my callsign.

          • Mago de Won

            Ahhh please, if my explosions where saying: “You are talking shit” which I found excessive that the mods banned such insignificant expression, then what was your: ” your argument is ridiculously patetic”; if that isn´t an emotional accusation for you, then you should land your feet back on the earth.

            I don´t see how assessing someone´s elses ideas in such way is a serious way of debating anything. As far as I and many other people know a truly substancial debate never includes such foreign and useless opinions, it completely revolves around arguments, and one refutes arguments by presenting own arguments, not by qualifying the other, their position or their arguments in such a futile manner.

            So in the end the first one to break civility were you presenting such trivial opinios about the other.

          • SofiaT

            Mago, Maus and everyone else participating: This thread is now also closed. Any further comments will be deleted with no explanation and no further warning.

            Alex is aware of the situation and has the entirety of the comments posted -deleted, edited or otherwise- in their original form, in his disposal. The final decisions on how to proceed with this argument are his to take and he will attend to them when he is available.

            Any complaints can be addressed to him, but the further disruption of this comments section will not be tolerated.

            In Amanda’s words: Enough.

            Thank you.

          • Maus Merryjest

            A quick question for clarification: By this thread do you mean this particular sub-discussion on this particular topic, or any post in this page at all? I’d like to continue talking on other topics, such as my recent speculation above on whether or not Tsunami is uncomfortable with sexuality in general, or just Kyle’s specifically.

            Do excuse that I am posting here to ask this question, but I am not sure there are other ways of contacting you for a question.

          • SofiaT

            A thread is a particular discussion within the page. As you can see, the comment you posted to Mago, after I closed the thread, was deleted, but other comments you’ve made since then as part of other discussions, remain intact.

            I’ll allow these two comments (yours and mine) to stand, in case someone else has the same question.

          • Maus Merryjest

            You’re doing it again.
            Calling an idea pathetic is an assertion of worth of the idea, not of the person, nor is it a personal attack.

            I believe this is where Amanda would say that this is why we can’t have nice things.

            I’m going to disengage- for all of the assertions that I am being emotional, there’s a fixation in laying blame instead of proceeding with the discussion. A rivederci.

          • Mago de Won

            It is not that one. The 14 paragraph comment is a bit below that comment you gave the link to.
            It all became confusing because the moderators comments moved part of our discussion downwards.

        • Steven K.

          Makes me wish I had been able to see that discussion before parts were taken down, so as to be able to form and give another independent opinion.

        • I didn’t want to intervene in this originally, but given the way the thread is evolving, I just want to say that I’ve never seen any incident of the mods here incorrectly using their authority. Maybe you’re right and I’ve missed it, but I think the atmosphere of this comic’s comment section for the past year is evidence otherwise.

          I may not post a lot, but I always read the comments, and reading the comments on this comic is always a pleasure, even when there is controversy about, and this is in no small part down to the “rules” and the way the mods work with them. I contrast this to other comics’ comments sections out there, which are badly modded and are a real trial to read whenever there is controversy.

          I have seen knee-jerk mods elsewhere, and Sofia and Admiral Jane are nothing like that. I have always seen them interpret the rules fairly rather than hit the ban button – they always try to engage the person first and explain to them how the “you” rule works. If they haven’t spoken to you since, it may well be because they already spoke to you in the thread, and now it’s closed. But you always have Alex as a final route of appeal. I don’t know how he finds the time to read all comments as well as produce the comic, but between the three of them, you have a very good chance of a fair decision.

          I don’t know for sure what the thread is in question (although see below), but I cannot imagine that they are just wanting “to keep a status” – the mods do have to enforce the rule, and saying “you are talking a lot of nonsense” (unless in the context it was clearly tongue and cheek) does sound like a you statement to me. While I confess I may have had doubts when the rule was first introduced, I now think it has been a contributing factor for why our comment section feels more friendly and welcoming, instead of being full of real flame wars and bitterness. It’s definitely made me reflect a bit before posting a comment or two since its introduction and reminded me, even when reading a post that previously would have sent me ballistic (e.g. victim blaming, homophobia, rape-culture), that if you want someone to agree with you, they mustn’t feel antagonized.

          As for the mods being human, they’ve survived drowning and nuclear missiles, so I’ll reserve judgement on that.

        • Grosse Schwarze Zehne

          Hallo leute

          wie geht es euch?

          how you doing people?

          i was readin around when i saw this particular discusion.

          i got curious and gave it a look to see if it was some real situation or just overreaction from mago, but it was hard because that threas was caos.

          finally i found the 14 paragrap comment so i could understand better.

          this is what i thought about all this.

          maus was gettin a lil intense in the second reply cause he stated his perspective in ways that made mago s arguments look absurd ‘n unaceptable in regard to common sense.

          maus wrote things like: common sense sounds radical nowadays; the argument ….. …… is patently ridiculous; When you make a habit of forcing yourself to think clearly and stay level-headed, you’d be surprised how quickly and clearly you can think in an emergency; heck, living requires judgement. and almost the whole last paragrap was a bit rough too.

          it all struck me as if maus never said directly anything wrong but was talking down to mago.

          what i m not sure but i ve the impresion is called in gay slang -readin someone-

          readin someone might not seem rude aparently but it can be agresive ‘n provokin.

          on the other side mago also made one hard comment: judging other people s decisions with written dissertations that stablish final truths is rationalized and pretty comfortable but also descontextualized and unrealistic.

          but it seemed more direct and less talkin down than those of maus.

          since the other reply i could find was him tellin the mods if they were friends with maus i couldnt find any more hard comments on his behalf.

          except when he cofesed saying -you are talkin nonsense-

          and i dont find it any ruder than maus s talking down.

          in my opinion the mods should ve not interfered with their discusion ‘n maus was more caustic with his coments than mago.

          but there was no big deal either so i don t understand why intercede

          it also struck me as if mago is a more direct person when it comes to a fight, while maus is more of the throw the stone hide the hand style.

          i see other posters have said they cannot interprete intentions so they are not sure if maus did wrong but they forget that apareance may work as cover up for certain form of agresions like readin someone.

          saying i can t interprete the intentions of writen coments may be a way of washin hands of the matter when there s hidden wrong attitudes.

          i hope you liked my comment friends
          wish you all a nice day.

          tschüss

    • *sings along to all* XD

    • It’s been a long time! Thanks for the reminder. 😀

    • How annoying…it’s blocked on my iPad…mobiles I know often get blocked…but tablets?

      Weird and sad…

      • They are links to these songs from Pete’s Dragon in this order: “There’s Room for Everyone in This World” “Razzle Dazzle Day” “Boo Bop Bopbop Bop”

        Things were getting a little too tense in the comments here and these songs in this order are my response to things. ^_^

        • Thanks for the info!

          Actually, Youtube allows the links to resolve properly, it’s just that the video player is blocked from playing so while the title is visible, the video itself is unviewable 🙁

  • DC

    I personally can’t be so quick to pass judgement on Tsunami and throw a label of homophobe on him. I need a bit more solid evidence. Just because a person can appear upset about another inferring they are homophobic doesn’t automatically make them homophobic. If someone incorrectly called me a liar I’d be upset at that and being upset wouldn’t automatically make me a liar. I do think he is over protective and probably uptight when it comes to talking about sex in front of minors or in front of anyone perhaps. I have a 15 & 16 year old niece and nephew. I wouldn’t share most of what I view/read on the internet with them, regardless of what most people think 15 & 16 years already know or have seen. I even go as far as changing my desktop picture (from a very tasteful picture of a backside view of a naked person) when I know they are going to visit. The problem is my comfort level regarding all aspects of sex, and possibly this is the same as with Tsunami.

    • Klaus

      We do not know exactly what Kyle has told the team, but I think it is a sure bet that he did not go into details about the sex.

      • DC

        I agree. I don’t think details were discussed. When I said ‘talking about sex,’ I meant Tsunami may be uptight even at the mention of the word sex around others. On an intimate or private level with one other person he cared about he may be more relaxed though, hopefully 🙂

        • IamM

          We can’t be certain from what we’ve seen, but Tsunami’s comment sounded a lot like those where homophobes equate being openly gay with sharing graphic sexual details.

          • Maus Merryjest

            There’s also the possibility that he could just be very uncomfortable with the subject. My partner’s father, for example tenses up at any discussion of sex in public, and often prefers not to hear it being discussed if he can help it, and definitely not in front of minors.

            But on the other hand, he could be uncomfortable solely with gay sexuality. I think we will know very soon, within the next page or two, which it really is!

            Goshdarnit, I hate it when I have to wait 😀
            And love it at the same time

          • Derkins

            Either way he’s not behaving in a sensitive way to these issues, especially surrounding coming out. I think homophobia is a like racial prejudice, we’re all brought up with at *least* a *little*, because society tells us that if you aren’t part of the dominant culture, than you are less than. Kids see those whoa aren’t treated as well and think “I’m glad I’m not/ wish I weren’t that.” (I’ve heard children say this out loud as a teacher and nanny.)

            It goes to the point that basically everyone ends up rejecting large aspects of themselves, in one way or the other. Through repression, projection, and otherwise. I would think it would take a complete death of the ego to fully stop rejecting yourself and others to even the slightest degree. So the rest of us need to face up to facts if we want to move on to living a life of tolerance and acceptance.

            If we are going to give Tsunami the benefit of the doubt, it shouldn’t be that he isn’t at all homophobic, but that’s he’s young enough and likely sheltered enough (i assume, judging by his discomfort with the subject) that he doesn’t even realize that this is something he needs to confront in himself.

            We like to deny that we have existing prejudices, when faced with them. We try to justify our stance. For those of us that have worked through issues of prejudice related to social justice, we should count ourselves lucky to have the kinds of minds, friends, families, and mentors that helped us get there.

            Yes, Tsunami is homophobic on some level. But it’s nothing crazy, and hopefully this is a chance for him to learn some sensitivity and tolerance (though it’s too bad he has to step on Kyle’s toes to get there). He obviously has no way to relate to what it’s like to come out, and has never had a close friend go through it before, or he wouldn’t try to simplify it into just “keeping a secret.”

            And he obviously has no idea how big of an ass he is being toward Kyle. I hope Amanda helps him see that. She is the one person who could probably help Tsunami understand. Even if it means looking into Kyle’s mind (with his permission). I don’t think Tsunami would accept anything less than definitive, the way he’s acting.

          • Maus Merryjest

            Probably is clueless about just how hurtful his words are. This is actually not too dissimilar to my own coming out’s fallout…

            Well, I didn’t summon a demon from hell, but my mother felt betrayed and hurt at the fact that I had ‘kept it hidden’ from her for so many years, and for some time she reacted as someone who felt betrayed. She felt that she had been lied to, and she acted as if I had become a completely different person and she did not know me.

            She eventually got over it. But it took her quite a bit.

            Of course, Tsunami isn’t close to Kyle, so I think his sense of betrayal has to do more with a specific image of his team, and now that Kyle’s ‘spoiled’ it, there are some issues he has to deal with, which he rather would not.

            And then, Satan may be coming for a visit, which probably isn’t a thought that will help him be any mellower in this event. In that event, I’ be “Please excuse me for thirty minutes, I need to go freak the eff out.”

          • DC

            I’m not dismissing the possibility that he might be homophobic, but when we can’t be certain I just like to give him the benefit of the doubt. It has got to do more with my discomfort of passing judgement when things are still unclear to me. I was called up for jury duty once and was terrified about the thought of having to be part of deciding someone’s guilt or innocence. Fortunately for me I didn’t get picked out of the final ballot 🙂

  • Steven K.

    Nice comment. I can agree with most of that. The only thing that makes me feel a little awkward is the part about the “50[8, in fact]-year-old seducing the teen”. Just wanted to say that’s not always the case when it comes to older-younger situations. I’m a few months shy of 50, and lately (although I can hardly believe it myself) I’ve had a couple of 18-year-olds trying to seduce ME. It’s actually kind of a nice feeling for a single older gay-guy like me who has had to deal with decades of loneliness, and *I*, at least, wouldn’t dare to call it weird or perverted (not saying that this was implied in the comment, but there are an uncountable number of gay men whom I have encountered who have severe prejudices against the idea of a young guy and a much older man).

  • Michael T.

    i really like this comment! i wanted to include in my original comment that i definitely understand how tsunami seems to have the teams best interests at heart and that’s so far he seems to only be like a homophobe lite. i definitely think his character is redeemable-he just has some growing to do/character development to complete! in retrospect, i did word things a bit strongly in my original post, but not inappropriately so, at least in my opinion. if i had gotten any criticism on my wording, or how strongly and damningly my position came across as, i would have been sure to reassure people i don’t actually hate gordon. he just needs to maybe get rid of the prejudice he seems to be harboring

  • S. Rune Emerson

    *waves* Hey Alex! It was great to meet you at the booth yesterday! Thanks for signing my book!

    • Very much my pleasure, S. Rune! Thank you for coming by! 🙂

  • Sapfo

    Seeing your true self!

    This phrase has been stuck in my brain. To see your true self, what a person really is. The idea comes from the book (and yes, definitely the movie) The never ending story. One of my favorite. In this book/movie there is a scene where the hero must pass a number of gates to get to the Southern Oracle.

    It is explained that one of the gates you have to see your true self in order to pass. Quote from the movie: “But kind people find out that they are cruel. Brave men discover that they are really cowards! Confronted by their true selves, most men run away screaming!”

    It must be scary to see the innermost self and realize that they are not the person they thought themselves to be. But perhaps this is what is needed for some people.

    I leave this thought unfinished, because I do not know how this would affect me. Undecided of who and what I am. I hope to be good, but aim to missbehave… if only a little 😉

    • Klaus

      My favorite quite from the book: “His problem was the he wanted to be other than he was, but he did not want to change.”

    • What a fascinating comment to find at this particular juncture of all things.

      🙂

      It has quite a great deal of significance to me and I wonder what prompted you to post it?

      • Sapfo

        Oh thank you!
        I been thinking of this a lot lately, and even more now with this page.

        The comic is one reason (but there are others), for I do not belive that Tsunami sees himself as prejudiced. But what would his mirror show?

        Other then that? I like to think. There for I am? 😉

        • Yes…what would our mirrors show…?

          That is always an interesting question…moreover if you consider that while most probably consider their mirror to be a singular reflection in the opposite, in actuality, our mirrors might be more like a great splay of spokes radiating outward from us, with each spoke being an alternate.

          The less eloquent sentence: We have more alternates than just a single antithesis.

    • Derkins

      This has been stuck in my brain:
      *sings*
      “The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble through! So before you judge somebody, someone else is judging you.
      Judge not! ‘Fore ye judge yourself. Judge not! Lest ye ready for judge-meeent whoa-oh-oh-ooh”

  • purplefoxglove

    The team sure seems to have absolute trust in Mitch’s ability to fly the plane, because except for a little reprimand, nobody is really reacting to the occasional swerve, or worried Mitch might drop the whole thing. And as far as I can tell, the plane can not fly by itself – it depends completely on Mitch’s power, meaning that it has most likely been custom-made just for him.

  • Enough is right. Thank you very much. It was getting tiresome listening to him rant and rave.

    It’s a little ridiculous that Tsunami is holding Kyle’s demonic heritage against him…no actually it is super fucking ridiculous .

    Also ridiculous? Getting upset about Kyle mentioning “sex” or whatever…actually it’s worse than ridiculous.

    Teenagers/adolescents/whatever are sexual beings as well and denying that through suppression is one of the principal reasons modern Homo sapiens are so fucked up-

    The only species on this entire planet that has developed any sort of, moreover extremely so, social, cultural, and individual sexual dysfunction-

    In fact, it’s so bad at present I don’t think anyone is free of deep seated dysfunction.

    Must be a practical nightmare managing a bunch of young adults…

  • I agree!

  • Jac

    About time, Amanda.

    • Jackal

      Preach.

    • Derkins

      srsly. I’m super excited to hear what she is going to say. All sorts of scenario’s running through my head.

  • JP

    Alright, here’s my two cents, and FYI I reread the past couple pages just to refresh my memory on Tsunami’s entire argument. So, I’ll be going off this page and the past couple pages as well. ^_^ Just so no one gets confused.

    Tsunami is managing so much disrespect towards his teammates as well as dishing out a small side dish of homophobia. Dude can multitask.

    Mitch clearly has no problems with Kyle in any shape or form and Tsunami’s completely ignoring him, using Mitch’s age as a way to bring Kyle down. Totally disrespectful in my book. Tsunami needs to back down when someone else voices their own opinions rather than acting superior because everyone is or isn’t a child. Age doesn’t even enter the equation. They’re all on the same team and that team saves people, danger be damned. I don’t buy this sudden worry for everyone’s well beings. Tsunami seems to have a pretty high opinion of himself and seems like he wants to run the show, be one of the big heroes. He has NO “real” combat experience, and yet he just happens to be the only other person who’s staying behind with Spooky and Commander. Just because he was born a couple years before the rest of the team doesn’t mean he’ll survive any better.

    As far Tsunami’s arguments against Kyle not going, I don’t really buy those either. He’s acting like Kyle is suddenly a completely different person, even insinuating Kyle might’ve let all of this stuff happen ON PURPOSE.

    “Yes, you did make this happen. And maybe it was just poor judgement, or maybe it was something else.” – Tsunami

    Really? REALLY? Kyle didn’t tell every single person in the world he was gay and now Tsunami insinuates he could’ve been working with the bad guys in the first place? What??? Being in the closet is not the same as being a sociopath. >.> Dude needs to get his priorities in order.

    • Thanks for pointing that bit out- ie Tsunami himself has no actual combat experience.

      I remember reading that bit and thinking, “So then why the fuck is he berating and lecturing and yelling and whatever at everyone? What the fuck does he really know?”

      So yeah…good point…

      That alone really calls into question, “Why exactly does Tsunami feel qualified to deliver this rant?”

      • IamM

        He’s responsible for Mitch, Paul, and until recently Kyle. Can’t fault him for wanting to protect them from risks he feels obligated to take himself.

        • Yes. He makes that point.

          But why does he feel qualified to deliver any sort of lecture pertaining to combat scenarios, combat readiness, and combat preparation?

          If he’s seen zero actual combat he should just STFU and stick to his weak ass complaints about Kyle being untrustworthy/deceptive/demonspawn…

          …oh yeah…but then if he didn’t deliver the self-righteous rant, he wouldn’t have appeared quite so authoritative or important or whatever.

        • Derkins

          Maybe I’m wrong but it seems like they’re a group of kids who came together and appointed the oldest as guardians, just so they’d be legally allowed to be together without actual adults running the show. Tsunami being a guardian seems more happenstance for him, over the fact that he’s a more qualified leader (Ha! — This ain’t how you lead). And the “guardian” title has perhaps gone to his head a bit? What if Peter Pan started talking down to the lost boys this way? He’d get no respect — like in the beginning of Hook. 🙂

    • IamM

      Tsunami’s combat experience (none) isn’t relevant to his argument about not putting his underage charges in danger. But your right about the homophobia, “Decided to share his sex life with…” WTF?! ‘Okay guys I’m gay.’ is not sharing sexual details and ‘I made out with the Annihilator on my birthday because he said it would be safe (I know stupid mistake), and when I came he recited a spell that took us to a hell dimension.’ isn’t exactly graphic. Kyle was closeted and snuck out for his dates with a (supposedly inactive) supervillian, because duh closeted gay and oh supervillian. T’s making a mountain out of one personal secret and a short series of bad judgements. The big reason not to bring Kyle along is his emotional state (enraged, traumatized, both?) possibly interfering with his judgement during battle and causing mistakes, with or without one or both of two master manipulators pushing his buttons.

    • Derkins

      “Age doesn’t even enter the equation. They’re all on the same team and that team saves people, danger be damned.” — Thankyou. I wanted to mention something about this. If they are in the group, then they signed up for danger. It’s their job. If he wants to be an over protective mother hen, he should go work for a boarding school or orphanage.

  • Maus Merryjest

    Hmm, here’s a question concerning how the comic is made: are the pencils drawn traditionally and then inked and colored digitally, or is all of the comic created digitally?

  • ….PoC updated….for those that read…http://princeofcatscomic.com/comic/chapter-4-392/

    But wait! Don’t go yet! *hands you a box of tissues* Okay, you can go now.

    (most of you were expecting this)

    • What’s that?

      • Prince of Cats. It follows the story of a young boy who saved the life of a cat and is granted the ability to speak with cats until they are able to grant a wish of his to return the favor. Lee, the one with the temporary ability to speak with cats, digs his friend Frank. At this point in time the comic is very sad.

  • Cassi

    Notice how Gordon is expressing how upset he is at Kyle for “sharing his sex life” when literally one page ago, he was shouting about Kyle keeping secrets and not being “trustworthy”
    What would you have liked him to do when both coming out and staying closeted were apparently the wrong thing to do??

    • excellent point!

    • Maus Merryjest

      The one thing that surprised me was that Kyle didn’t come out to Amanda at some point. His other team-mates, I could see how they could intimidate him, but Amanda strikes me as someone whom a troubled young man would go to as a confidante. She certainly knew how to handle Spooky’s very unique scenario.

      Or maybe she just reminds me of my best friend in college, which is why I see her in that light.

      • Derkins

        Remember back to page one, though. Kyle was never convinced that he was even okay with living a gay lifestyle, especially since he thought sex was an impossibility for him anyway. Never-mind he thought he would be setting a bad example for kids. Furthermore he may have thought that people who he respected and looked up to might begin looking down on him (like Tsunami is now). I mean honestly there are a lot of reasons Kyle might not have felt comfortable, just like with anyone. Some people go their whole lives without coming out to the people in their inner circle, or potentially anyone at all. Otherwise I feel like his relationship with Anni was such an experiment. He had no idea where it was going to go, and he thought he was taking every precaution to be safe. If he didn’t feel comfortable talking to them in the first place, I don’t see it happening just cause he met someone that probably wouldn’t work out long term.

        • Maus Merryjest

          Yup you are correct, it look like Kyle had way too many issues pressing down on him to feel comfortable even talking to someone about it.

          Which made him a perfect target for a manipulator.

          • Derkins

            Exactly.

    • Derkins

      He’s also kinda brushing it off like Kyle casually told Mitch about his sex life just for fun. Well if his one and only sex act hadn’t lead to the situation they’re in now, then it certainly wouldn’t have been relevant, and he certainly wouldn’t have told Mitch.

      To Gordy: I mean really Gordy, I don’t think that is a big deal that you need to be worrying about right now. Mitch is clearly fine. Not that you’re bringing it up at a time that Mitch can say that. In fact, at some point I wouldn’t be surprised if Mitch let him have it. Kinda like the way he did all the “but… but… but” when they were going to pick up Kyle, and then finally broke down and pleaded with them. Except this time it’ll be to give Tsunami an earful. That is. If Amanda doesn’t do it first.

  • So…I was thinking it seems quite gloomy tone/mood-wise in the comments right now and I was wondering if we might have a light hearted round of shipping comments?

    I’ve been away for quite a while in terms of following the comments so I don’t really know where things went or are regarding the various ships…

    I know there was Duncan/Kyle and then the Mitch/Kyle ship popped up…are there any others?

    • ….part of the reason for the links I posted earlier ^_^

      • i noticed 🙂

        i thought maybe a lighthearted round of shipping might brighten moods 🙂

        • I think I am the captain (?) or first officer maybe (?) of the Kyle/ (legal) Mitch airship ^_^

          • Oh really!

            I sort of lost track of where we were at with our ship 🙂

            Did we go with Firefly or did a different name get settled upon?

            Also, I’m sad I missed the assignment of crew positions lol 😛

          • Heh, we never did, but while everyone was building their ships in the bay, We/I built in the sky. ^_^ I remember posting a pic of what the airship would look like. Give me a few to find it again….
            http://ekladata.com/QAW9iofJv-p5yvheTmADT_jltso.png
            http://pds11.egloos.com/pds/200903/05/82/a0008982_49aebf53a15e8.jpg
            Though I don’t think either of those where the ones I posted before, but close enough ^_^

          • That’s so awesome!

            …but the second link doesn’t work lol 😛

          • Mago de Won

            I am sure most followers thought I was the focus of the bad mood and responsible for all the situation. But don’t worry guys, I won’t bother around here anymore, apart from defending my stance in that finished conflict I won’t be a nuisance for the others.
            No point in remaining in an space were people don’t feel sympathy towards me anymore.
            Have a nice day anyways.

          • Steven K.

            Well, like I said, you have my sympathy, at least, though I know that may not be too much of a consolation).

          • Mago de Won

            Thank you Steven!
            You may think it is not, but for me it really is a great consolation to know someone as kind-hearted as you wants to be my friend.
            Thank you again.

          • Steven K.

            I think I’ve been in there from the beginning too – well, ever since the scene where Mitch learned that something bad happened to Kyle and was soooo eager to show his support, etc. (just been hiding for awhile). I wanted a new version (since the other is a whole separate sci-fi “brand”/institution) of “FireFly”.

          • By “version” do you mean “name”?

            I thought Firefly was great because, even though it does allude to Scyfy’s “Firefly,” it’s such an elegant combination of the two names. Plus, come one! FIREFLIES?!? Fireflies are so awesome and cool and they’d be like the perfect symbol for a Kyle/Mitch ship…plus it has a nice ring…

            But anyway, if not Firefly, then what? I know that there were a couple of other names bandied about but I didn’t really like any of the other ones that I saw 😛

    • Saxon_Brenton

      Kyle/Duncan was indeed Redilator. Others I can’t remember off the top of my head… [googles] Kyle/Mitch: Firefly, Kyle/Paul: Hot Fluke, Kyle/Spooky: SpooKyle. There are probably others still, but man it’s a pain having to continually prod Disqis to get all the converation text in order to do a ‘search on this page’ function.

      Also, there’s Amanda/Spooky. Now, I admit that I didn’t get this one, and had to have everyone else explain it to me (slowly, and in words of single syllables…), but yeah, it’s a thing too.

      • thanks!

        i was trying to use Google to search for the name of the Duncan/Kyle ship but was getting crap but that’s probably because I was using Reddilator not Redilator…

        I’m actually not surprised that there is an Amanda/Spooky ship as they do have a pretty intense first meeting which has rescuer attachment written all over it. So I can see other readers sensing that and feeling like maybe Spooky felt close to Amanda for handling his debriefing or whatever it’s called, and then I guess maybe people speculate that that developed romantically?

        What totally surprises me is the Kyle/Paul ship and the Kyle/Spooky ship because thus far there’s been pretty much zero actual comic material that even hints that there is some sort of budding attraction or whatever between Kyle and Paul or Kyle and Spooky…

        Of course, I guess this is…sorta a yaoi but…not really right? I mean…this doesn’t really seem to be operating like traditional yaois…

        What I mean to say is that if the comic is of a genre celebrating sexual exploits of it’s male characters in a particularly male/male manner, then I guess there’s a ship for everyone and we just have to see which one(s) make it lol…

        • Saxon_Brenton

          Sometimes ships are built with nothing but “wouldn’t this be neat?”. That said, Sofia T pointed out on the previous comments page that Fluke’s strong defense of Red Hot could be interpretted as that of a lover rather than merely a strong platonic friend.

          And for a really cute take on Commander/Spooky, Alex reposted this on his tumblr:
          http://alexwoolfson.tumblr.com/post/83789820033/um-i-was-wondering-if-youre-still-answering-that-ship

          • I know…that’s probably what drives so many of the shipping wars-

            Some people are like “Yay! Let’s pair so and so!”

            …and then others are like “No! Reality says otherwise.”

            But I guess we’re banned from shipping wars so…shipping races?

            Does that link you posted mean that the Amanda/Spooky ship is real by Word of God?

          • Maus Merryjest

            Shipping Races… that puts me in mind of Hannah Barbera’s Wacky Races.
            I call dibs on Penelope Pitstop’s car!

          • That would be funny if we could make ships for all the different arrangements and then stage some sort of zany race ala Wacky Races or Great Race.

          • Maus Merryjest

            I’d pay to see that!

            Hey, the Young Protectors Romance Racing Board Game. Pair your favorite pair up and then race to the finish!

            Time to Kickstart, yes?

          • Oh! I think you’re on to something…but we need a game mechanic(s) by which the speed of the various ships would be determined…otherwise, how is there an actual race?

            But yeah…that would be totally awesome!

          • Saxon_Brenton

            Does that link you posted mean that the Amanda/Spooky ship is real by Word of God?
            I don’t think so. I mean, at first I thought it was canon, but then I had a closer look. It looks like someone else was doing a shipping meme challenge, and Alex simply reposted it. A pity.

          • That’s kind of confusing…I mean it seems so in-depth and then posted by Alex…I seriously thought it was official…I did notice that another user’s name was tagged in the post header, but I didn’t know what to make of it so just overlooked it I guess.

          • It’s a Tumblr reblog. Someone else’s thoughts and words, not mine. I just thought other people might find that other person’s post interesting as well. 🙂

          • Thanks for clarifying.

          • Thank goodness.

            So, you’re saying this fantasy certain people have that my Spooky is straight… is NOT a genuine WoG, but simply a reblog that sorta sounds like one. I’m so relieved. 🙂

            *chris wipes brow and makes a ‘whew’ noise.*

          • lol Chris, have hope while you can 😛 ^_^

            Just because he hasn’t yet, doesn’t mean he won’t! 😛

            Love you sweetie!

          • Adam Black

            What if spooky acquired a demon fetish in hell.?

            Kyle could still have a chance with Spooks….

          • Klaus

            Want to join the Hellfire club?

          • Adam Black

            um…maybe?
            what kind of privileges are there?

          • Klaus

            You know about the Mile High Club, I’m sure.

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Well, even if Spooky and Amanda are a couple, Spooky could still be bi.

          • Maus Merryjest

            Fluke is a total sweetheart -and- drop-dead gorgeous. That’s a ship I could totally get behind.
            Heck, that’s a ship I could totally get on board, call it the U.S.S. Enterprise, and get Patrick Stewart involved in it.

            Now the question is this: could Fluke’s luck powers get charged enough to counteract the possibility of incineration? Inquiring minds will want to know eventually.

          • Curt Clark

            Picard was always best captain <3

          • purplefoxglove

            Thank you so much for the link – I don’t use tumblr (although I’m beginning to think I should change that), and that post is a gem ^^
            So, since I didn’t get the whole ship meme thingy, I have to ask this probably stupid question…that’s basically Alex writing a what-if-they-were-together, not a WOG-yes-they-are, is it?

          • SofiaT

            Holy crap, do I need to start following tumblr now too?
            This was awesome!

            And btw, totally shipping these two!

      • Well there was debate on whether or not to actually use Firefly because of the show, I don’t remember any formal resolution to that issue.

        • I do recall that but as I also recall, there weren’t really any better suggestions-

          ALSO

          Fireflies existed before the Syfy show…so I don’t really have an issue with the allusion to Syfy as personally, I don’t really envision Syfy’s Firefly when I see the word, I more think about cool, glowing insects burning through the night…which seems very fitting for Kyle and Mitch 🙂

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Firefly wasn’t a SyFy show. It was on Fox.

          • oh…i’m so confused…did SyFy take it over at some point and syndicate it or something…i don’t know why but for some reason i was thinking that it was being controlled by SyFy…oh well!

            revise that comment!

          • lol-

            whatever-

            same difference 😛

      • You know that huge shadow being cast over all those tiny ships? It is the approaching vast armada of Team Pitchfork, which is not at all happy about being forgotten.

        • Team Pitchfork?

          What’s that for?

          • Saxon_Brenton

            [slaps forehead] Doh! Of course, Team Pitchfork. The Kyle/Duncan anti-ship.

          • oh…are we allowed to do that?

            i mean, i thought we were forbidden direct attacks on other ships?

          • More specifically, we ship Duncan/Pitchfork. We spend all our waking moments hoping for a romantic encounter that ends in impalement.

          • between Duncan and a specific pitchfork? or just any pitchfork in general?

            who is this Pitchfork? are we going to meet him?

          • I smell a fox in my hen house! Did Sophia and Admiral Jane send you as a spy to find out Team Pitchfork’s capabilities and resources?

          • maybe but not likely 😛

          • It’s definitely risky behavior, Daniel, and it can easily become harassment if a poster chooses to go confront other posters on why their ship is “wrong,” especially using Replies that wind up in other people’s email inboxes. That’s not cool and, intentional or not, can quickly become trolling. It has caused some more exuberant commenters to violate the Comment Policy and get a warning (which they then immediately respected.)

            Now, some posters use terms like Redilator and Team Pitchfork to self-identify which, if done lightly, can be done without making others feel attacked or minimized. (Much like a properly used I-statement.) I think David’s quip below about how he spends his “waking moments” falls into that category. We’re all mostly adults here (over 90%). We’re allowed to have opinions, even strong opinions. Express your opinion like a grown-up who respects the feelings and opinions of others and you’re cool.

            And, of course, as long as the tone is respectful, folks make it clear it’s just their own opinion, and it’s kept just about the ideas, people are welcome to debate which ships are most likely, most fun, most squicky, never-in-a-million years, etc.

            I also tolerate some gentle ribbing back and forth so long as it’s clear that everyone involved is enjoying themselves. It’s definitely risky behavior and the mods and I keep an eye on it, but so long as the tone is respectful fun for everyone involved (instead of disrespectful digs), then there’s no need for us to intervene.

            But if you’re thinking about any of your comments as a “direct attack” or any kind of attack (instead of fun/friendly/respectful discussion), you’re probably already in danger of crossing the line. And because shipping is very personal, I think it’s very tricky to criticize another person’s ship without making it an ad hominem judgment about the commenter’s character (which is in violation of the Comment Policy.)

            My strong advice would be to avoiding criticizing another person’s ship altogether and instead keep it about yourself, your own likes/dislikes. Use those I-statements, a “just my opinion tone” and focus on the fun part of shipping instead of who’s “right” and who’s “wrong.” That’ll help keep you on the safe side of our Comment Policy.

            Hope that helps. Thanks for your question, Daniel! 🙂

          • i get most of that up front…

            …i think i’m just leery of an antiship ship in that it’s specifically titled, intended, and referenced as to criticize another ship.

            and yeah, after being reprimanded for my comment about torpedoing the Redilator, i certainly have no thoughts about doing anything with an antiship…

            …i really was just surprised that it is tolerated as i don’t see any difference between me making a quip about “torpedoing” one ship, and then someone else promoting a ship that is expressly the anti-ship to another ship.

            not be argumentative, but this is exactly what i was arguing about with Admiral Jane during the whole discussion about retaining offensive comments but hiding them.

            i understand that if they can’t be hidden then deleting must be the only option, but honestly, i find stuff* like this to be horribly confusing because my experience is that while many people assert that that, for example, being derogatory is obvious and should be readily apparent to everyone, i find that to be utterly untrue in personal experience.

            face in point, personally, i would find it kind of derogatory if someone created a ship for the express purpose of sinking a ship that i champion.

            granted it might not be a direct attack upon me and my ship but for all intents and purposes that is actually the spirit of the offending ship.

            *(by stuff i expressly mean, certain comments are aggressively removed for being unacceptable while others that i would think are also unacceptable are tolerated and overall i can’t really get a sense of what warrants the delete/ban hammer and what doesn’t)

          • I hear you, Daniel. Well, if ever you have any doubt, the mods and I are always here to answer your questions. 🙂

            If it helps, while Team Pitchfork could be used as a term for an anti-ship, my impression is that it’s actually used as a criticism of a character (The Annihilator), not any specific ship. If it’s just used as shorthand to say “I think Duncan can’t be redeemed” it’s not a criticism in itself of other commenters’s opinions.

            People are allowed to have different opinions about what characters are “good” and what characters are “bad.” If they use a respectful tone, they are also allowed to discuss those opinions with people they disagree with. That’s fine, particularly if you correctly use those “I-statements.” But if the goal is not to simply express your own opinion or to understand where someone else is coming from but rather to attack other people for having an opinion, then that’s not following the spirit of our Comment Policy.

            It’s been months and months since you made that quip so TBH I don’t 100% remember what you said and what I said, but I suspect that that was the point I was trying to express to you at that time. That commenters should be striving for open and friendly discussions where everyone’s opinion is respected, instead of looking to “torpedo” each other.

          • I’m replying late because I’ve spent pretty much all my waking hours today dealing with the nightmare that is software complexities of 3D modeling and then the even worse nightmare of trying to prep said models for actual printing on a 3D printer.

            But I want a mental distraction to distance me from that horror so that I can calm myself and go to bed…I know, like this is a particularly calming conversation, lol.

            Anyway, again, I don’t intend to be argumentative here, I’m just genuinely trying to convey my confusion and my perceived double standards in the community here-

            To me, it’s not that Team Pitch Fork could be used as a term for an anti-hip, it _is_ the antiship to specifically Kyle/Duncan.

            Who else does it apply to?

            I understand the words that are being written but I don’t really understand your perspective because while, yes, I do get that saying “Team Pitchfork” or talking about “Team Pitchfork” isn’t necessarily a direct attack upon the Kyle/Duncan ship, it is most definitely a criticism of that ship and I feel like hairs are being split here.

            This is totally ironic, because I was (and actually still am) a huge opponent to the Kyle/Duncan ship, and now I’m vehemently arguing against that side in a way, but again, using the “I” approach espoused, I know that I would be really kind of offended or upset or whatever if other(s) took it upon themselves to expressly craft a nickname for a ship that exists for no other purpose than to condemn the very ship that others and I champion.

            I think that if it’s unacceptable to make a direct comment against another’s ship, then it seems to me that it should also be unacceptable to make up ships that whose sole purpose is to merely criticize or ridicule others’ ships.

            I feel that what we are discussing is the equivalent of the following two scenarios:

            1) Person A stands near Person B and throws rotten tomatoes at them and says “You’re trash because gays are trash!”

            2) Person A stands near Person B and holds a big sign saying, “Gays are trash!”

            While it’s true that in one case, Person A is “directly” attacking Person B, at their essence, both are really essentially attacks upon Person B, albeit in #2, it’s more passive-aggressive or indirect.

            Furthermore, in the case that Person B is actually gay, #2 is really just as bad as #1 because while perhaps in #2 Person A isn’t “directly” attempting to harm Person B, they are nonetheless attacking a key characteristic of Person B in a spiteful way.

            I’m not saying that Team Pitchfork is intended by David as a thinly veiled passive-aggressive attack on Team Duncan/Kyle, I’m more saying intentions are irrelevant here, Team Pitchfork _is_ at its essence nothing more than criticism/attack on the Duncan/Kyle relationship.

            Again, Team Pitchfork might not be aimed at anyone in particular nor may not be intended as spiteful or hateful or whatever, but it is in its essence so.

            Furthermore, I sincerely see little or no difference between one person saying something like, “You know that huge shadow being cast over all those tiny ships? It is the approaching vast armada of Team Pitchfork, which is not at all happy about being forgotten.”

            or

            “More specifically, we ship Duncan/Pitchfork. We spend all our waking moments hoping for a romantic encounter that ends in impalement.”

            Both of those are direct quotes from David Rose’s posts about Team Pitchfork.

            Just to be clear, fundamentally, I don’t really care about Team Pitchfork, in fact, if it weren’t for the whole torpedo thing, I wouldn’t care at all and I wouldn’t be writing this comment, in fact, if it weren’t for the whole torpedo thing, I’d probably be a huge proponent of Team Pitchfork and egg the whole thing forward, but quite frankly I was really actually kind of super mortified when I got criticized for the torpedo comment because I never for a moment thought that jokingly talking about torpedoing the Redilator was actually an attack on anyone.

            What really bothers me here is this bit that you say, “But if you’re thinking about any of your comments as a “direct attack” or any kind of attack (instead of fun/friendly/respectful discussion), you’re probably already in danger of crossing the line.”

            See that’s just it, I never thought for a moment that my torpedo comment was at all an attack on anyone, but when I was criticized for it, that criticism just came out of nowhere and totally blindsided me.

            If you go back and read my torpedo comment, I feel that you will find that I wrote a very long, thoughtful, considerate, even handed comment about the questionability of Duncan as someone who genuinely cares about Kyle given his whole handing Earth to Hell bit _and_ at the very end of that comment, I quipped, “i’m sorry but the Redilator needs a couple of torpedoes in it asap”

            I was not expecting to get called out for that comment particularly when it was tiny piece of a much larger comment that I thought was completely acceptable or whatever.

            I realize it might seem like I’m flipping out about something that happened a long time ago, but I don’t know if I can adequately express how incredibly bad I felt after you called me on that comment.

            I was utterly embarrassed and thoroughly mortified, just felt horrible, and avoided the comments for a long time , so that’s really why I’m making such a big deal of this because again, I don’t see any difference between my torpedo comment and David Rose’s Team Pitchfork, and I don’t think it’s particularly right or fair to tell the community that we’re not to make attacks upon other ships, but then permit a ship whose sole purpose is the negation of a ship(s).

            Anyway, I apologize for being so strident about this and I also want to say that I really am not trying to defend my torpedo comment, in fact, at the end of the day, I would say I agree, though perhaps innocently and lightheartedly made, my anit-Redilator comment(s) were just that and since then, I wouldn’t think of repeating that behavior, and ultimately, I recognize that this is your site and you’re entitled to make your judgement calls as you see them and furthermore, as nuanced behaviors go, if you see nothing wrong with creating a ship that’s just a criticism of another ship, while discouraging direct criticisms of ships- that’s your prerogative, I just wanted to clear the air and share how incredibly upset this makes me…

            …and I wanted to escape fighting with 3d software and frustrating technical difficulties in making my art.

          • Howdy Daniel,

            I hear that it was very upsetting for you to get that warning and for the pain it caused you, I am sincerely sorry. (I mean that!) I hope you will believe me that it certainly was not my intention to cause you any pain. It is not common that the mods and I have to issue warnings—and when we do we try to use the gentlest language possible.

            I was able to find the thread where we had that exchange. It was on CH 3, Page 7 and you had references launching torpedoes a couple time on that page:

            http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-ch3pt1-page-7/#comment-1164388827

            http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-ch3pt1-page-7/#comment-1164386098

            If you look at my response here:

            http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-ch3pt1-page-7/#comment-1164732212

            you’ll notice a couple of things. One, that I was trying my best to be clear to you and everyone else that I was certain you meant no harm by your words:

            “I know you’re being light-hearted here…”

            but also, that I was also trying my best to make clear that this comment wasn’t so much about you and your comment but about a general tone I was seeing forming on the page:

            “I’m noticing things have been getting just a little heated with this topic… So, I’m asking folks to keep the topic of their comments about expressing what they themselves think instead of about convincing other people that they are wrong.”

            There were actually a number of people who were walking or crossing the line from personal sharing to direct attack while expressing their opinions on that page and so it was time for me to step in. I hope when you re-read my comment, you can see that I tried to express what needed to be said in the least critical and gentlest way I could. I’m not a perfect person, so maybe I didn’t succeed, but that was my intention.

            I hear that you felt “utterly embarrassed and thoroughly mortified, just felt horrible” by my words and for that I’m truly sorry. Even though I try to do it in as gentle and compassionate way as I can, I take no pleasure in issuing warnings. It’s a necessary part of my job of keeping the forum here as pleasant as it can be, but it’s frankly the least pleasant job of being a moderator and I’m fully aware that despite my best intentions, feelings can get hurt.

            Because it’s so rare that the mods and I actually need to intervene, it’s definitely a learning process. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have made that comment as a direct reply to you; I should have made it a freestanding comment to make it clear that I was speaking to a number of people on that page. I probably still would have referenced the “torpedoes” because that was such a clear expression of what I was talking about, but thinking about it now (and particularly now that Disqus has enabled the Featured Comment feature), I think that would have been a much better way to address the whole group. I don’t know if that would have made my comment hurt you any less, but I think that would have been a better way to handle what I was trying to do. And all I can do is ask for your forgiveness, patience and understanding as I figure out the best way to handle these things.

            I will also say that I do very much appreciate you taking to heart the actual message I was trying to convey, despite the pain my words caused you.

            As for the “double-standard,” I’ll do my best to again try to explain the distinction, but if it still feels confusing, my advice would be to do what you’re already doing and avoid coming anywhere near what you’re calling “anti-ships.” As I said, at best I tolerate them (especially the “gentle ribbing” quips like that “huge shadow” comment) and frankly, I think there are far more interesting and fun things to spend one’s time on here in the community.

            I hear you that you’re not seeing any distinction there between calling oneself a member of Team Pitchfork and directly attacking/criticizing/harassing or promising to directly attack/criticize/harass other commenters about their love for Anni/Kyle. And as I said in my first reply to you, it’s certainly “risky behavior” to even go there. But I think your metaphor provides a perfect way to show where our perceptions differ here.

            I don’t think “Gays are trash” is actually equivalent for what I think is happening. “Gays” refers to a character trait of real people—frankly, I suspect a number of our commenters are gay and the creator of this comic certainly is. But The Annihilator and Kyle are fictional characters in fictional story. It is true that some fans can get so wrapped up in a story that they will personalize their likes and dislikes, but it’s my belief that most reasonable adults know people can express different opinions about a story and its characters with an expectation that other reasonable adults won’t view it as a personal attack.

            I think a better metaphor for this situation would be something that is not a personal character trait, something like “vanilla ice cream.” So using your metaphor, I think the metaphor actually should be “You’re trash because vanilla ice cream is trash!” vs. “Vanilla ice cream is trash!” While I might want our commenters here to choose a more respectful tone than calling anything “trash”—I think there are gentler ways to express that view that would lead to more productive discussion about ice cream flavors—on this forum the latter would be tolerated (up to a point) while the former would not be.

            We’re a forum of mostly adults. So long as commenters express differing opinions with a tone of respect when debating directly with other commenters (or referencing other commenters, etc.), that’s cool. People are allowed to have likes and dislikes. I’m sure you’ve seen that some people LOVE Flyboy. But I also know that some readers find him annoying. Should they not be permitted to say “I think Flyboy is annoying!” in the comments for fear of injuring those who love Flyboy? I think not. I think most grown-ups have the capability to understand that someone can have a different opinion about something without it being something that’s an attack (or, frankly, even being about the person who loves the thing.) Saying “I think Flyboy is annoying!” is OK. Saying “I think you’re trash because you don’t think Flyboy is annoying!” or “I’m coming after you because you like Flyboy!” is not. Can you see the distinction there?

            As I’ve said from the beginning, all of this “anti-ship” stuff is, at best, risky behavior. I can totally understand if despite my best efforts, this is still confusing for you. I don’t think a double-standard is going on here, but it’s certainly more of a grey area than other topics and I think the smartest thing to do is what you have been doing—avoid anti-ships altogether and focus on more fun and productive conversations in the comments.

            Hope this helps, Daniel! 🙂

          • thank you Alex for the thoughtful, considerate, and informative reply.

            often, when highly emotional, i’ll pull back for a bit…

            …of course the problem w/that is, I forget to resume the conversation, so i apologize for the late reply.

            yes, all things considered, i agree with you, moreover i greatly appreciate your sincere expression of …?…remorse…?

            i wasn’t terribly upset, just pointing out that the warning for my infraction was very uncomfortable and thus i felt testy regarding the present matter.

            that said, i also agree that your suggestion of simply avoiding involvement in such controversy, best.

            thanks!

    • Klaus

      I think that the Platinum Priestess and Hunter really deserve each other.

      • HA!

        I feel like that ship would go down on it’s own in flames…literally…she doesn’t seem like the kind of person that would put up with most people…

        😛

    • silibub

      Oh no…I want to talk about ships but I also need to go for a run…. Actually I’ve been thinking a bit lately about Duncan and Kyle and what I’d like to see happen with that relationship. My personal views have evolved quite a bit since I started reading the comic, and my feelings about them as a pairing have gotten more complex as a result. Maybe I’ll have something articulate to say about it by the time I get back, assuming the page doesn’t go up super early tonight.

      (*cough*Also Sircea/Me OTP*cough*)

      • Well we can always move the regatta to the next page…why don’t we do that?

      • so what are your feelings?

        😛

  • Feverfew_M

    *sneaks in*
    *leaves giant pile of cookies and muffins for AJ and Sofia*
    *adds two steaming mugs of hot chocolate*
    Stay strong, girls!
    *sneaks out again*

    • SofiaT

      Lol! I actually indulged myself this morning and bought me a huge cup of hot chocolate with hazelnut syrup, from the cafe around the corner from my office.
      I’ve been good and hadn’t had one in months, but I felt like today it was needed. *hugs*

      • Feverfew_M

        *hugs back*
        Every indulgence is well deserved!
        Yeah, we’re touching emotional topics here. But I for one really enjoy the character building and stuff.
        *leans back and steals a cookie*

        • SofiaT

          I got an awesome recipe for tahini buns (think cinnamon buns but better) and was planning to bake on the weekend, but my oven sorta exploded and I’ve been waiting for the electrician to install a new one.

          When I got an oven again I’ll bake a batch of buns PLUS cookies >:D

    • 😀 Thank you so much, Feverfew! I needed that. *hugs* I took the biggest piece of cake tonight after dinner.

      • Feverfew_M

        Rightly so, you’re the admiral after all! 😀 *hugs back*

        • Well there is that! 😀 Again thank you so much.

  • Well, now…

    So, I’ve been at GaymerX2 for the weekend and I had a ton of fun there meeting so many of y’all.

    It seems there was also a bit of fun here in the comments while I was gone… 🙂

    Well, now I’m back.

    Before I get into the housekeeping, let me focus on a couple things that are just as important to me:

    1) It was an amazing, magical, wonderful pleasure getting a chance to talk in person with so many of you. It’s such a privilege to have such smart, kind-hearted, thoughtful readers—and I mean that. Talking to each of you, hearing how you’ve connected with The Young Protectors and Artifice and their characters, even hearing how sometimes reading these comics have made your lives better, helped you see yourselves as the worthy, awesome people you are — it just put me over the moon with happiness. The handshakes, the hugs, the thoughtful interactions, the laughter… Thinking back, I just can’t help smiling. You really are truly wonderful human beings both online and in real life. It’s a great privilege to have the chance to know you.

    2) I’m also struck with the very high-level of intelligent discourse on this page. Much of what I write is with the hope of provoking illuminating, thoughtful discussion conducted in a respectful, productive way. While there was a bit a drama involving a few people (which I’ll address shortly), as has been pointed out, I do, in fact, read every single comment posted and, regardless of any specific conclusions, the smart, thoughtful analysis y’all are giving to Tsunami’s character is all I could hope for and more. If I had time right now I would personally respond to each of you and let you know how impressed I am, both with your insights and the mature, respectful way you are handling the discussion. There was indeed some very vocal drama between those few people, but for the 99% of the folks here who were contributing on-topic, I continue to be impressed with your maturity and smarts.

    I’m having to do some housekeeping now, but the truth of the matter is, reading over all the comments, many from new readers, you make me so proud of the community here and I don’t want that to be at all overshadowed. You do indeed totally rock and that’s what I’m really taking away from the comments on this page. 🙂

    Now to the housekeeping…

    First off, let me ask that everyone re-read our Comment Policy. Especially new folks and even if you think you shouldn’t have to. Do you pal Alex a solid and read it one more time. It can be found here:

    http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/comment-policy/

    Now, there’s some discussion of “you-statements”, etc. on that page, but right up top, there’s the basic rule. It’s this:

    When talking to or about another commenter (or commenters in general), always use a tone of respect. Especially when you disagree.

    What does a “tone of respect” mean here?

    It means that when you post a comment, you make sure you make it clear that you think the other person is just as smart, compassionate, moral, logical, reasonable, etc. as you, yourself, are. Maybe even more so.

    This is especially true when you disagree with someone — in that case, you should go out of your way to let the other person know that while you disagree with their idea, you have nothing but respect for the person making it.

    I also answer this question on that page:

    You talk a lot about using a “tone of respect” here. What if I really feel the other person doesn’t deserve my respect?

    Then don’t respond to them and don’t mention them directly or indirectly in this comments section. If the other person is clearly out of line, send me an email and I or one of my moderators will look into it.

    As they say, “two wrongs don’t make a right.” Just because you feel someone is disrespectful to you will not give you any protection at all if you then decide to be disrespectful for them. If you are disrespectful to anyone here for any reason, you will get a warning and if you choose not to heed that warning or are, for whatever reason, incapable of following our Comment Policy, you will be banned.

    Ah, but what if you feel the other person deserved a warning too?

    Fair enough. My moderators and I do our best to catch everything, but we’re human; it’s possible we missed something. If so, hit the Flag button that shows up when you hover your mouse in the upper right corner of their comment. That immediately brings it to the notice of the Mods and they’ll look into it. If they think it deserves a warning, they’ll give one.

    But either way, move on. It’s not your problem any more. If you decide to go vigilante and attack the other commenter or, even worse, attack the moderators here, you have now become the bigger problem. And then it won’t matter who started it or how subtle and brilliant their initial attack might have been, you will be the one who will be banned.

    This is a moderated comment forum. As can be readily seen by the high quality of comments on this site, Sofia and AJ do an excellent job as moderators. Their work allows me to focus on creating these comics for you (instead of putting out fires) and they do it all for free (and often for very little thanks.) I would not be able to devote the time I need to this work without their help. Their judgment has earned my respect and trust. I have their back.

    When a moderator declares a thread has been closed, then that’s it. Whether or not you feel you’ve had a chance to say everything you wanted to, you are not to post further in that thread nor are you to engage the other commenter on that issue any more. If you post a comment on a closed thread, they it will be deleted without comment. If you continue to try to post comments in that thread, you will get a warning and if you still continue after that, you will be banned.

    If you are disrespectful to the moderators or if you ignore their instructions, you will be banned.

    If you think you are being treated unfairly by the moderators, email me directly. Then stop posting in the comments section until you hear back from me. Life is short. Go out, get some fresh air, play with some puppies, whatever. I will look into it and then will give my final word.

    For the record, I have reviewed every single comment in the thread below involving Mago et al. and I believe that Sofia and AJ acted appropriately and without bias and frankly, used considerable restraint. As far as I’m concerned that matter is now closed.

    (And by the way, I understand that it might be tempting to create a second account to try to further your point under another name. Not only is that frankly a bit ridiculous and fairly obvious even to those without Disqus moderator access, Disqus actually makes it clear that it’s coming from the same person, so it’s another great way to get yourself banned.

    If your point is valid, multiple actual real human beings will recognize it as such without your needing to create make-believe commenters. If other real people aren’t agreeing with you, then you should pay attention to that reality check and realize that your behavior is very likely out-of-line. Either way, it is expected that every commenter only uses one account here. Using multiple accounts is against the rules and yes, will get you banned.)

    What if the other commenter keeps trying to engage me? Shouldn’t I be able to defend myself?

    Yes. In that case, use the Standard Bow Out Language from the Comment Policy and use only that language in your comment (no cheating to get in the last word!) and the Mods will make sure that your wishes are respected.

    So, hopefully that makes things clear. If not, please feel free to ask me a question and I will attempt to clarify further.

    But regardless, no matter how justified you feel or how much you think the other person is so much worse, I expect the disrespectful tone and personal attacks to now stop completely. Bow to each other and move on and ideally talk about more interesting things. This is my only warning on the matter.

    So, that’s housekeeping #1. Housekeeping #2 involves what happens when a troll is banned. It’s a rare event, but it also happened on this page, so I wanted to answer this question:

    Could there be a discussion amongst the moderators and Alex about whether offensive comments should be removed vs. hidden WHEN PART of a larger thread for which the other comments remain?

    While it is trivial for me to ban a user and delete all their comments with a single button press, Disqus does not offer an option to “hide” comments. This is why I almost never delete comments unless a thread has been closed, unless the comments are trolling or unless they are truly, needlessly pointless and provocative.

    Troll comments have no educational value, IMHO. And they also have no place polluting our comment section here. In fact, the last thing I want someone to do with a troll comment is to respond or engage with it in any way (other than to flag it for moderation). Don’t feed the trolls!

    I hear you that deleted comments from a troll might make for a few non-sequitur responses in a thread if someone took the bait and so, if we have time, the Mods and I will attempt to delete those responses as well one by one. But I trust you will understand if that takes a low priority.

    Anyway, that’s the housekeeping. Thank you very much for taking the time to read this longer note from me. And I just want to state one more time, how continually impressed I am with this community. We had a bit of drama on this page from a few people, sure, but that takes nothing away from the ton of smart, thoughtful, (yes, respectful), and engaging comments from all the rest of you.

    You make me proud. 🙂

    • Daddy is home 😉

      • purplefoxglove

        It’s so quiet in here…almost as if the kids are sitting on a bench, heads bowed, and saying “Yes, daddy” once in a while 😉

    • RD

      Hello,

      Although I missed the drama that happened in this page (I was away from the internet) I want to reply to this. The entire team working on this project has managed to create something very special here, and I want to acknowledge that.

      I have not been particularly active in these comments sections. I have a tendency towards lurking in my internet explorations in general. In a large part of what I interact with I don’t read the comments at all, as I find that comments sections often take away from the experience, rather than add to it. Here I make a point to read as many comments as I can, because the comments themselves are interesting, engaging, and a value-added experience.

      You (in the plural, including all the creators as well as the mods and my fellow commenters) have managed to build a community. While there is generally a group around a webcomic that has the love of the webcomic in common with each other, this group feels like it has something beyond that. This is a group that cares about the webcomic, but also one that genuinely cares about the other people who care about the webcomic. I have seen multiple instances of commenters helping and supporting each other here. This is a very welcoming, fun environment, and I felt safe venturing the few comments that I have made.

      And yes, there have been disagreements. Arguments. Opinions scraping up against emotions. However, this community has managed to weather most of these with minimal damage. This is a community that consciously self-polices, and does so admirably. The comment policy is kept in mind so universally that even when there are disagreements it usually feels like the comment policy is there as a formality, it seems to come so naturally from the participants. This is not universal, and I know it comes from a lot of hard work.

      For the most part, I have seen disagreements here smoothed respectfully and without the need for any intervention. When intervention is needed it is well given, well received, and most often easily effective. It is rare that we need this kind of housekeeping post, it is rare that Alex needs to step in, and that says a great deal about the quality of the community that has been built here.

      This is a fantastic community. I love stopping in, even if I don’t post. I love that I feel safe commenting here. I love the speculation on the story, and I love the touches of personality and life that exist in the comments. This is a community that is worth being proud of, and I sincerely thank each and every one of you for helping to make it happen.

      RD

      • purplefoxglove

        Your post is so sweet and heart warming, I just went “aww…” even after I read it a second time. I totally agree with you; I usually tend to stay quiet and listen, too, but I just felt comfortable and at home in this community, so I had to join in more actively.

        My father send me an email with this little piece of wisdom a few day ago: When Master Li, who has been teaching Tai Chi in Germany for some years now, was asked what he thought was the difference between German and Chinese pupils, he said: The German pupils wonder what the master can do for them, the Chinese pupils wonder what they can do for their master. (I hope the translation is fine, the original quote was in German.)
        Master Li’s response reminded me of our little community here. We’re not here to take what we can get, but to share and heighten the experience of watching the comic grow and the story unfurl. And, of course, Alex is totally our master 😉 What can we do for you, lǎoshī?

        Some people argue to win, others to destroy, and again others argue for the sake of arguing. Sure, here, people disagree, too, but IMHO that’s part of why we comment in the forum: we try to discover new things and broaden our horizons. I always felt that here, when people argue, they do so because they want to reach if not an agreement, then an understanding. The atmosphere is a highly constructive and positive one. I, for my part, highly enjoy reading the comments and, once in a while, to put in my two cents.

        What I really, really love is that friendships have formed that sometimes even extend beyond the internet (the thought of Sapfo and Danish camping together gave me snicker attacks), and that people here are immensely supportive. So…yes to all of your points, and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us 🙂

    • Adam Black

      I sent a friend to go to your booth Sunday.

      • Adam Black

        disqus is being weird.

  • Yukiness

    I have to empathize with both Tsunami and Fluke here. I’ve been on both ends of this argument and it sucks. It’s hard to defend yourself and not come off like an asshole, and vice-versa. Glad to see the Commander finally stepped in before people started throwing their friendship bracelets on the floor, or worse, bringing up petty things like, “And you still leave the bathroom light on when you leave! You know it shines right in my room and I can’t sleep with the lights on!”

    • purplefoxglove

      And here I’ve been wondering what purpose Tsunami’s bracelets had… 😉

  • purplefoxglove

    For something absolutely not related to the situation – I wonder what hobbies TYP have? We’ve seen Paul playing games during his on-call duty, and in the interlude, he’s browsing the net while Kyle is reading/studying and Spooky and Gordon play chess (shudder). What else do you think they do in their free time?

    • Klaus

      Well, there is one hobby very popular with boys their age that Kyle has not practised.

      • purplefoxglove

        Really? What is it? I so do not have a clue. 😛 😉

      • Stubbylegs

        Checkers? Jump rope?

        • Steven K.

          Candyland perhaps. Or maybe “The Game of Life”.

    • stickfigurefairytales

      Mitch is apparently good with computers, so I’m guessing he spends a lot of time on them as well.

  • I thought Derkins post below was right on…

    http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-ch3-page-42/#comment-1484541080

    Her post inspired me to share this blog-post.

    It’s a great piece by Brocklesnitch on Ian Thorpe’s coming out in the spotlight, but I think there are elements that relate to all of us that had to come out and the challenges that go with it.

    http://www.brocklesnitch.com/brocklesnitch/2014/7/13/thorplease

    “Coming Out” is so complex that it’s hard to even relate to, unless you’ve done it or been really close to someone who has.

    Understanding the process really speaks to understanding how painful, scary, difficult, fragmented and individualized “coming out” is. How it is something one must do with one’s-self FIRST (often hardest, depending on one’s level of inner denial and fear)… all before one can “come out” to friends, family, co-workers, possible hostiles etc… It’s a profoundly confusing and complex process and is never a single conversation. It can take months… even years to complete, and requires a lot of inner strength.

    Speaking for myself, the last person I intentionally “came out” to (almost a year after I started the process) was the person most in my camp, most supportive, closest to me and the one I had the most fear of losing… my mother. She simply smiled and said, “You know I wondered, but I was afraid to say something, because… well, what if I was wrong?” She is still my best friend.

    My brother, the retired Marine, just said, “Cool… can I have another beer?”

    I also had friends I never heard from again, and some who were very unhappy and took a year to get over it, and now can almost not remember being so upset in the first place.

    Long ago stuff… but harder than I can describe. If anyone suspects a friend is going through this process, please trot out all your patience and love, because it’s one of the hardest things a person can do. If you can’t relate just trust me and support your friend, it may not make sense to you from the outside, but they’ll never forget you for your love and support.

    I applaud Alex for making his “super” characters so human and (even if it’s painful to watch) making Kyle’s process so honest and real even in this fantasy context. It’s a good thing for everyone to understand. Thanks.

    • Klaus

      I know that so well from myself. The more a negative reaction would hurt, the harder it is to summon the curage. Even though I have never had a negative reaction.

      • Derkins

        Often imagined responses are so much worse than the real thing.

    • Derkins

      I’m honored. 🙂

    • I missed all/of your amazing posts and shares, Chris! While I may not post here as often as other places… I read almost all comments 😉

      I experienced my own small moment of this last weekend when I went home and went out for brunch with my father. He brought up a topic and bit of family news that I was not aware of yet of a relative.

      He tried to almost spin it as the freshest piece of gossip and shame, and I think I threw him for a loop when I said, “Good for them for finally being able to be them self.”

      I was not expecting that moment, but glad that I could stand up for another in their absence.

      I`m wishing one day this is just the norm and widely accepted and not something to be kept from each other like the best game of telephone.

      • How fantastic. That casual positive acceptance is more likely to make someone rethink how they are reacting to something like this than all the strident speechifying in the world.

        When someone loves you and hears you speak from the heart, how can they not hear it and at the very least consider also? Sometimes it’s just a chink in old habits, but it could be the beginning of some new thinking. Brava!

        Thank you for sharing that. Made my day. 🙂

  • Katsu Imvu

    I know this is a bit late but I have to ask this for my sanity.

    Why does Mitch have to keep the plane airborne? Shouldn’t it be able to do that itself?

    • Saves a ton on fuel.

    • Klaus

      Engines are both expensive and heavy. Fuel tanks, pipes and pumps take up space that can be better used for something else.

      • purplefoxglove

        Does that “something else” have anything to do with the “one hobby very popular with boys their age” you mentioned below? *makes innocent puppy eyes*

      • purplefoxglove

        Come to think of it, the manufacturer must have been quite confused by the order: “We want a jet, but don’t put any engines or fuel tanks in it. Oh, and we need two columns made of this special metal – just put them next to the cockpit.”

    • timemonkey

      Who would give a group of kids a working jet? Especially one one of them has fire powers he sometimes can’t control.

    • I was wondering that myself.

    • Curt Clark

      I feel like Mitch’s power can out-stealth even the stealthiest of stealth tech.

  • “I personally don’t give a damn about who any of you mess around with during your off-hours” – unless it’s with a supervillain. Tsunami, you seem to contradict yourself a bit here >_<

    To me, Tsunami certainly does come across as being somewhat homophobic. In the same way 2013 Russian federal law on “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships among minors” is homophobic. (I really don`t think it`s just Tsunami`s attitude towards sex in general, because, I believe, if that was the case, he probably wouldn`t use expressions like “mess around with” around Flyboy). But he also seems to be a reasonable person who, as the saying goes, has his heart in the right place. I believe if someone would talk to him and calmly explain things, he could see that he is indeed prejudiced and once he realizes that he would probably even admit that he was wrong and apologize for harmful things he said.

    But it’s not the time nor place for them to really have this discussion. I guess this is their way of venting and forgetting, if only for a moment, that the fate of the world hangs in the balance and largely depends on their actions. And letting off some steam is not a bad thing then there is so much tension, but biting each other` s heads off is certainly counterproductive – they can’t afford any casualties before the big fight even begins!

    On that note, I’m so glad the Commander has finally interfered. Looking forward to whatever she is going to say!

    Also, I get that the reason they barely let Mitch utter a word is because he is currently “driving” and needs to concentrate, but it seemed to be that in some other scenes his teammates might have been belittling him and not taking him seriously, etc. – probably because he is the youngest member. I wonder if they actually underestimate him…

    Oh, now I really want to see them not letting him say anything meaningful for the rest of the journey and then going straight into the big fight and then when all seems lost Flyboy unexpectedly saving everyone by launching whatever it is he has recently learned to launch with his powers that he mentioned on page 37 before getting rudely interrupted. ^__^

  • davefragments

    Regardless of his reasons, Tsunami is pulling the entire group’s focus away from the situation — The Annihilator and Platinum Princess are opening a portal to a hell dimension so they can take over half the world and live forever.
    That’s the problem with Tsunami’s bit of complaint.
    He distracting from the real issue.

  • Adam Black

    Seems I missed the drama…
    This is now unintentionally funny/ prescient:
    “So! It seems like when even the Spookster gets frowny, it’s time to
    intervene! Some strong words have just been said. And as that Spookster
    would be the first to point out, real trouble is just on the horizon.
    Will Commander be able to bring this rag-tag bunch back together again?”

    LOL

    Bad commenters. Do not make Spooky frown.

    what? I’m early for camping? by 23 hours?
    D’oh!

  • Adam Black

    I wish to make a series of complaints.

    ( editing to save while adding relevent links )

    I am not satisfied with all services I receive and something must be done to accommodate me.

    (1) My feet hurt, and this is interfering with my summer.
    The parties responsible owe me, and all of earth an apology for the inconvenience

    (2) Sometimes people dont smile when they plus my posts.
    In the future I expect smiles. If there is a conflict and you have been smiling you -may- must send me a youtube video of this in the future. I am not trying to deprive anyone of any smile credit

    (3) Larry Latham, of Scooby doo Fame has Cancer!
    This is a multparted complaint. I am not going to name any names ( dont force my hands ) but the parties responsible owe larry, Scooby Doo lovers and all the fans of http://www.lovecraftismissing.com a deep apology

    b) http://www.lovecraftismissing.com is now Hiatus and larry might not even be able to finish illustrating the story. ( Because of the Cancer )
    If you can recommended one please go tell him . http://lovecraftismissing.com/?p=8498

    Seriously, time may be running out…

    c) Larry is seeking wellwishes from webcomic fans. Please go there and cheer him on. Dont turn Part C into a future complain letter. I can do that.

    (4) U2 has cancelled releasing one of their 3 albums for the 3rd time in 3 years . CMON How bad can the Dangermou5 record be?
    why not release Spiderman ? and no Summer Tour! again.

    (5) Captain Jack is on Google Plus:
    ( No, that is not a complaint! But after reading all this bad news I realize you might need something positive to get throuhg the day — or even up to points 38… ) ( LINK )

    (6) This letter is taking too long.

    (7) If society was better organized I could just give you dictation. My computer is too hot and the heat hurts my fingers typing.

    (9) I turned off my phone and forgot the password. its been 2 days…

    10) I forgot #8 and nobody even told me.

    11) There is a ( maybe-evil) conspiracy by Pod-People to duplicate me.
    Oh, No I can prove this, this is totally and completely real.
    a) I am not a twin
    b) I have never consented any cloning by Apple Corp ( ar any tech company )
    c) I am not a Cylon or a Terminator
    ( I am probably not. Who really can say if they were a Cylon, right? You can really only be certain if you are) Nevertheless, I stand by my subjective claim that I am not the Synthetic Person. Any Synthetic Human would be made much better than I )

    LInks Of The REAL ME: ( Links)

    Scary Evidence, I have been physically duplicated BY Pod-People:
    ( Links)

    12) Not a single person has yet offered their defense to me, against Pod-dupication. Cmon?

    13) I have no way to contact good friends I made while dreaming, this year.
    I do not even know If i murdered them upon awakening!
    Obviously this is totally and completely intolerable and I expect someone to fix this bug right away.

    Whoever is responsible for setting up this ridiculous so-called “Existence” owes us all a series of deep apologies. If you are reading this, get on the ball. What kind of amatuer are you ?

    But please do not forget, I need my dream friends phone numbers…

    14) UsA Television has been totally awful since they switched to Digital.
    Not only has my signal not improved, but Now I get only static.

    I am tired of watching a Blank Screen. No matter all the Broadcasters are losing money . If this isnt fixed I will have to give up my tv viewing schedule entirely

    15) I havent been hugged since season.
    Keep it up and I will go on strike.

    16) Tigger ( LINK )
    projectile vomitted water and undigested catfood 3x Saturday night, including all over my bed. It was like the exorcist , except less messy, and probably no demons

    17) But I couldnt go to sleep because he was hungry .and couldnt risk him projectile vomiting any more catfood

    18 ) When he’s hungry he walks up to me and naws on my leg. What kind of cat does this? It was cute at first, but I seriously think he wants to eat me!

    19 ) and had to buy him new catfood Sunday morning and now My sleep schedule is off 11 hours!

    20 ) its still not Wednesday, there is still no comic. Camping is taking too long

    21) I cant think of anything for 21. ( thats my complaint )

    22) You never send me flowers, you never sing me lovesongs

    23) i might have a rash

    24) Despite repeated complaints, the “aging-bug” has continued unabated.
    I have politely requested patches 3x.
    Get on the ball, are you waiting for total system failure? This entire department out to be fired– unless they are hoarding a solution. Then email me ( I will tell no one )

    25)

    • davefragments

      Take two aspirin and remember that SHARKNADO 2 happens in two weeks. That will cure whatever ails you.
      wink, wink

      • ooooh! another Sharknado!

        yes!

      • Adam Black

        sharknados dont form this far north
        @davefragments:disqus

        ( also, aspirin eats holes on my gut, I have real opiates, and they work poorly for neuropathy )

        • davefragments

          Sorry, I was teasing about take two aspirin. It’s the old doctor joke. However, on SyFy Channel, the Sharknado Two silly story occurs in New York City. Hey, I don’t make it up, they do.

          • Adam Black

            I dont have cable, and per my complaints not much else. . i’ms sure there is a way to attach my TV to FM radio, but no picture shows up

    • Sapfo

      you should know that I smiled when I favor this comment. Unfortunately, I no longer get stuck on the image. so I can not document this. Dont know why.
      I did try and tell you about #8, but you did not answer you phone.
      I hope cat gets better.
      Am did you not feel my dream hug last night? Oh well, here you have one more: ε=ε=(っ*´□`)っ

      • Adam Black

        @smsif:disqus i trust you.

        ( you may put a selfie with a timestamp on you Tumblr )

    • stickfigurefairytales

      With regard to 11) c, I think that the only way to know for sure if you’re secretly a Cylon or a Terminator is to chop off one of your fingers. However, please be advised that if you are, in fact, human, the finger will not grow back.

      • Adam Black

        @stickfigurefairytales:disqus
        I nominate you to try that on my pod person duplicate .

        If I’m the copy, I am so poorly designed and assembled there is liitle to worry about

      • Adam Black

        I hate incomplete instructions…

        It just grew limbs and crawled away.
        Why didnt you mention that possibility?

  • Tuesday’s Weirdest Theory Contest & The Mystery of Spooky’s Cap!

    Okay here is your super deluxe non sequitur weird-ass hypothesis for the day. Usually it takes someone bright, like Saxon, to come up with one of these really good rubik’s cube theories, but I just woke up this morning with this one… a juicy and quite silly what if, indeed!

    Okay, do you remember Le Spooks in the Bonus Comic page (top right)?

    http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-bonus1-page-22-23/

    Young Spooky is holding a chain that is clipped on to a seemingly cute young demon’s wrist. That young demon looks pretty adorbs, and also pretty out of it. I want to believe that Sir Spook is rescuing the cute demon from something. WHAT? I have no idea.

    So Whacky Tuesday Hypothesis —

    What if, in order to save the poor devil (groan), Spooky has to transform the little demon into a cap… you know… to smuggle him out of hell? And so, later, Spooky is looking for a way to get him a body again, because until that happens lil demon has to remain in Spooky’s cap, from where he may (or may not) help Spooky in his exploits.

    Okay, my first problem is that Spooky doesn’t have this hat yet at 14 in the police station… so I’m not sure where the rescued demon boy is at that time and when/how he get’s smuggled out of hell in a ball cap. (You’ll have to work with me on that one.)

    But there you have it. My contribution to the Whacky Tuesday Hypothesis & The Mystery of Spooky’s Cap.

    Take care all.

    • I love this.

    • Well! Considering how both Dean and Sam brought spirits out of Purgatory on Supernatural, it’s always possible that Spooky-to-be brought out the cute demonlette in a similar fashion tucked away somewhere.

      • Thanks for the crafty thinking Admiral. See, I want so badly to stay classy, but you say “somewhere” and my mind immediately goes to expensive fancy designer demon underpants…

        I guess to escape from hell, a cute little demon has to do what a demon has to do. 🙂

        • Ha! 😛

          In this case, it was under the skin of the arm.

    • Saxon_Brenton

      A moment of self-realisation: I’m sitting here bemused by the fact that I’m more pleased at being accused of promoting weird-ass hypotheses than I am pleased at being called bright. I think it appeals to my self-identification as a nerd.

      • Awwww funny. I never connected you with my “weird-ass-ness,” just the “complex but fun part.”

        Your hypotheses are full on nerdtastic.

        I think the other half is that you are so surrounded by nerds here, that we all register it as a default state. So you self-identify! I suspect you are in very good and welcoming company. Now about Spooky not having the cap in the Bonus Comic… part… erm…

        chris slyly hopes to get Saxon’s gears turning

    • Sapfo

      Oh it is the story of the demon genie in the cap and his Spooky.
      This was very cute Chris. I love this.

    • Adam Black

      Well is there are a few traditional places males have been known to hide things

      • Indeed. Got to watch out for those drug-sniffing-dog-demons when you’re sneaking stuff across the border.

  • Always Raining Here has updated: http://alwaysraininghere.com/index.php/arh/page-135/

    And NK has posted Chapter 9 of her Starfighter High School AU: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1722170/chapters/4249278

    • *joins campfire to read this and immediately goes to read the other two things*

  • davefragments

    Somebody at that ad agency that flitters around here and sells things – is slightly demented – – – The Anime and graphics ads can be strange and weird but the cholesterol studies and Atherosclerosis study is way too much to cope with. . . Like a strange alien visitation from the strange zone

  • Heh

    Hello guys! Long time no see! 🙂 Seems like my short absence just missed out the bad part [ yay]. I’ve missed you all, tho. Now, to camp.

    *unpacks marshmallows and sits by the fire*

    • stickfigurefairytales

      Hi! Welcome back! Yeah, I missed the stuff going down too, which I’m personally grateful for. Mind if I have a marshmallow?

      • Heh

        We got lucky this time, thank god. *hugs* Nice to see you again, Stick! You can have as many as you want dear, how are you doing?

        • stickfigurefairytales

          Nice to see you too, Heh! I’m doing pretty well – I’ve got a job interview next Monday. I did have something scary happen yesterday, though. I’m dogsitting for a neighbor, and when I was taking the dog on a walk she got ahold of what turned out to be rat poison. She’s doing fine, though – I got most of it away from her and took her to the vet so they could induce vomiting, but it was very worrying.

          • Librarican

            I’m afraid to like this post so
            Job interview = 🙂
            Possible dog poisoning = 🙁
            Dog doing fine = 🙂
            Dog vomiting = 🙁

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Thank you! 🙂

            Fortunately I did not have to deal with the dog vomiting part myself – the vet took care of all that. Vita (the dog) was very good throughout it all and I have been lavishing her with attention. Admittedly, I do that anyway, but still.

          • Heh

            Whoa! First of all, congratulations for the job interview! I hope you do get it! And i understand how you feel on the dog matter, if it was me on your place, i think i would be very worried too. Glad shes doing fine now. 🙂

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Thank you! Yeah, it was pretty scary, and I’ll be watching her closely for any signs of something bad happening. The vet told me what to look for.

          • davefragments

            No one should leave rat poison where other animals can get to it.

          • stickfigurefairytales

            The really upsetting thing is that it was very probably left out deliberately. She (the dog) had gotten it out of an open bag of trash before I could stop her, and since I wasn’t sure what it was I knocked on the door of the house whose trash it was. The man who answered said that he’d found it on his lawn and just put it in with his trash, but it wasn’t his. He was the one who told me it looked like rat poison, so I’m really thankful that I thought to ask him about it.

          • davefragments

            I had field mice get inside through a small hole and I put non-chemical mouse traps under chairs and ottomans that my dog couldn’t get to. It got that done mouse inside the main house. Glue pads took care of the garage. I could throw the tiny pests out in the weeds still stuck to the pad.

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Yeah, you definitely have to be careful about pest control measures when you have pets.

        • stickfigurefairytales

          And how are you doing? (Sorry, I forgot to ask before! I apologize for my rudeness.)

          • Heh

            Nah, don’t worry about it. Im good – facing a little bit of Pms and wanting to eat a whole box of ice cream, but good.

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Mmm…ice cream. Hope the PMS goes away soon.

  • davefragments

    Hey Cleveland, you got a LeBron back.
    Better than a political convention!
    wink, wink

    • stickfigurefairytales

      Thanks! We’re all pretty excited. 😀

    • Librarican

      I’m honestly a little confused by the whole thing, but maybe it’s because I am not a sports person.

      • davefragments

        He got homesick and decided to go play in his own backyard. That’s how I see it.

  • Librarican

    So, I feel like I am super late to the party…. Like, I am the parents arriving home after an overnight trip and they turn on their street and realize the house has exploded and all that is left is burnt and blackened framing, still smoldering from the hollowed out husk. Dare I try to make sense of the moderated comments or ask what the heck happened while I spent a weekend away?

    • Phyre Storm

      There was a troll, or else a sincerely racist jerk. Either way, good riddance. You didn’t miss much.

    • davefragments

      A house in South Beaver PA (Beaver County) blew up from a propane leak. There was nothing left. Not a brick on brick as they say. Amazing to see the pictures.

      • Librarican

        My cousin’s house burned down when the car blew up in their attached garage. The heat was so extreme that it warped the door on the fridge, so that is the imagery I have in my head, even though I never saw it personally.

        • stickfigurefairytales

          Oh my goodness! Was your cousin okay?

          • Librarican

            Yeah, the dad had just gotten home and was carrying groceries in. Went inside with one bag, came back out for another, and the car was in flames, it happened that quickly. Ran through the house to the front door screaming fire get out (he had just gotten home and didn’t know who else was in the house or where). The two kids who were home got out okay, one of them running into the December snow without any shoes on even.

          • stickfigurefairytales

            Thank goodness, but still, what a terrible thing to have happen.

          • davefragments

            House fires are devastating. There’s usually nothing but the clothes on a person’s back left if it burns down. That’s hard on people.

    • Nah, such things never really make sense.

  • Hi Everybody!!

    • stickfigurefairytales

      Hi!

    • Heh

      Hey!

    • Saxon_Brenton

      Gleepings.

    • Librarican

      You are always so on top of poc 🙂

      • Heh, there are just a lot of things updating today. ^_^ It is keeping me on my toes. ^_^ EMR should be updating as well soon. ^_^

        • Feeling the Starfighter update tingles too and just waiting for it…

          • Do you think Hamlet would have answered if we had asked in the LS?

          • After the last mass tweeting contest we had around an update I`m sure she would have. I just don`t like to bug her about it to avoid feeling rushed. It`ll be up when it`s ready 😉

          • Yeah. I can wait. ^_^

  • davefragments

    John Stewart just commented that for those kids at the border to be an “invasion force” for the Marines to repel with armed weapons, they should be capable of reaching and opening their box of cereal first.

  • silibub

    Just curious — does anyone else here read Homestuck? I’ve been rereading it this past week so now I’m doing the inevitable crossover with TYP in my mind, trying to determine what everyone’s class/aspect would be.

    (…And for everyone who hasn’t read it, that last bit of my comment will be pretty much indecipherable. Sorry!)

    • stickfigurefairytales

      I’ve read it. I haven’t considered this for the TYP characters before, though.

      • silibub

        It probably wouldn’t work out perfectly for everyone, especially since the specific attributes of some classes and aspects are still kind of murky. I just thought of how Fluke would be a textbook Rogue of Light and got to speculating from there!

    • Heh

      I did read it, but the crossover never crossed my mind.

      • silibub

        Ah, cripes, I’m that nerd who compulsively crosses things over. Oops

  • DemureDesire

    Does anyone else expect the Commander to start using first AND middle and last names any moment now?

    • Phyre Storm

      As in “Gordon John Dickbag, SHUT THE HELL UP?” I hope so.

      • Saxon_Brenton

        I would think it would be something subtler, like “Gordon Throckmorton Te’o, I will not have that sort of language on my team”.

    • Stubbylegs

      Yup, followed by everyone hugging and saying they’re sorry.

  • James Wade

    I am trying to decide who should do her voice.

  • Librarican

    I was really hoping to stay awake for camping, but I seem to fail miserably at this game. Have a good night everyone, and I guess I’ll catch it in the morning.

    • stickfigurefairytales

      Goodnight! Sleep well!

    • silibub

      Goodnight!

    • Good Night!

  • mogoskier

    People from the US the internet needs your help. Right now in congress they are trying to pass amendment to kill net neutrality. Without a free internet site like this will be phased out be ip companies. Please call your representative to stop this.
    Here a website that you can do that
    https://dearfcc.org
    and a video explaining what the issue is in more clear and funny terms
    http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6980368/why-net-neutrality-matters-and-what-you-can-do-to-help

    • stickfigurefairytales

      I’ve added my comments!

  • fujoshifanatic

    Man, I am so glad I missed all the drama! I come here for the excellent story, fantastic art, and the wonderful, funny, intelligent, insightful, sometimes revealing, and always enlightening discourse I find in the comments. It’s a shame some people tried to taint this atmosphere, but I am glad that Alex and the other moderators handled the situation with prudence and sensitivity. I have seen flame wars get really messy, and then get messier still when the moderator got involved, and from what I can see of the aftermath, that wasn’t too much the case here. Bravo and thank you TYP moderator team! I appreciate your efforts, and I’m glad I got the chance to shower you all with well-deserved praise. My Scooby snacks are formulated for moderators as well as creators. ;-P

    Since we are close to the new page, all I have to say about this page is 1)You go there, Paul, and tell his ass! 2)Tsunami…*shakes my head*…you really went for the “think of the children!” excuse? I really hope your attitude evolves soon. If Obama can do it, so can you! 3) Aw Mitch, you are so cute–but stay on task, sweetie! 4) Spooky is so boss being able to keep his (and Mitch’s) focus while shit is going down behind him. That is why he is forever awesome. 5) Amanda! finally! Shut this ratchetness down before people come to blows. Paul’s fist is looking a little twitchy now..

    Awesome page; now on to the next! 😀

  • Oh my gosh I haven’t camped in forever. Fellow campers! What shall we do to pass the time?! 😀

    • stickfigurefairytales

      Welcome! Want to toast some marshmallows?

  • I was about to say good morning but will instead start with.. page is up

    http://webcomics.yaoi911.com/archive/ete-ch3-page-43/

  • Amanda

    And can I say lol “The gays”